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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 19:38:40 GMT -5
I'm tired of you and your Pro-Cyclops-punching-through-steel agenda, WK! *fist shaking*
~TWF
(It's awesome to see you guys in here! I've missed talking rules with you guys. Sometimes I think this is more fun than playing.)
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2009 19:41:21 GMT -5
Oh, I'm here, and couldn't be more glad you're back. I thought I was going to have to finish up this project by myself, and quite frankly, you've got a better eye for putting rules together than I do.
Your Force Field is going to become the standard for my games.
At any rate though, I look forward to getting back to this, and to doing some play testing.
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Post by Dionon on Jun 4, 2009 19:43:36 GMT -5
Ok, let's get one thing straight...
There IS no resistance for Jumping...
We haven't written it into 2.0 that I know of, We've never discussed it in 2.0 that I'm aware of.. .and it ONLY exists in the House Ruled Assembled guide.
So... With all of that knowledge, I say to you that there is no point to limiting the jumping distance of someone per panel (which is basically how you use acrobatics, not per leap) to their Strength.
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 19:44:59 GMT -5
The Force Field is perhaps my favourite of the 2.0 Actions, and that's mostly because it's sort of everyone's FF. I was slow to come around on the "Sue Storm style" energy thing, but now I'm in love with it.
There are still some wonky things that need to be sorted out in a thread, though. I'll open some soon.
Also, I plan on putting up some fictional setting info. Ultimately I'd like to write the setting myself because I've had it in my brain for the better part of a year now, but I want to get enough details out that hopefully other GMs can run some storylines and test out some rules in the same setting. We'll see how it goes.
I'm looking forward to having a game where the PCs aren't all a team, necessarily. It will be extra neat if some characters decide to team up anyway. ^__^
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 19:48:25 GMT -5
... there is no point to limiting the jumping distance of someone per panel (which is basically how you use acrobatics, not per leap) to their Strength. I never, ever, ever proposed limiting "per panel" distances by Strength. If I did, it was entirely a typo. Total distance travelled using Acrobatics as a movement action (this is a new rule I'm proposing for 2.0) is limited by your Speed. In other words, if you sprint as fast as you can, you go as fast as your Speed. If you sprint as fast as you can and you do some cartwheels, you still go as fast as your Speed. Edit: At times you WILL want to know how far you can jump in one go. Eventually every character will have to make a bold leap in a literal sense. That is why I'm carrying over the house rule leaping stuff into 2.0. I like it, and that's what I'm testing. If/when it turns out to suck, we'll make it better. ~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Jun 4, 2009 19:57:46 GMT -5
I never, ever, ever proposed limiting "per panel" distances by Strength. If I did, it was entirely a typo. Might have been a misunderstanding on my part.... I do that occasionally. Total distance travelled using Acrobatics as a movement action (this is a new rule I'm proposing for 2.0) is limited by your Speed. In other words, if you sprint as fast as you can, you go as fast as your Speed. If you sprint as fast as you can and you do some cartwheels, you still go as fast as your Speed. And here's where you're essentially wrong... If I have a Speed of 2, and an Acrobatics of 4... Why can't I go a Run Distance of 4... Many beings can do some OTHER form of movement faster than they can run... You might as well limit Flight to Speed if you want to go this route... I honestly don't agree with that, and personally think you should disqualify this part of the rule. Edit: At times you WILL want to know how far you can jump in one go. Eventually every character will have to make a bold leap in a literal sense. That is why I'm carrying over the house rule leaping stuff into 2.0. I like it, and that's what I'm testing. If/when it turns out to suck, we'll make it better. ~TWF Honestly, using this in your testing kinda brings down the MURPG 2.0 thing... it hasn't been discussed by the group, and it honestly isn't something that I personally would have agreed with, and would have made a good, pointed argument against. I honestly think you should rethink using a 1.0 house rule as part of your 2.0 playtest. I can see where you would say "You want to know how long you can jump in one go" Strength/Agility seems fine for that, but honestly, if I misunderstood it, how many more are.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2009 20:01:55 GMT -5
Sorry, Dio, I gotta side with TWF here.
Unless you have "super-acrobatics", you shouldn't be able to jump/run/tumble at super human speeds, and its really stupid to AUTOMATICALLY make a mundane action transform a person into a super-human.
Mary Lou Retin(sp?) would have had like an 8 or 9 Acrobatics... no way in hell she could move at speed 8 just because she was tumbling.
Perhaps there could be some kind of option that allows Acrobats to move at super-human speeds like Wall-Crawlers and Web-Slingers can... but it shouldn't be cheap and it sure as hell shouldn't be automatic.
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 20:07:58 GMT -5
If your average 14 year-old olympic level gymnast has Strength 2, Agility 3 and Acrobatics let's say 5 (total of 8 stones of Acrobatics), they shouldn't be able to jump 1,500 feet in one jump. That is stupid.
If the only criterion we use for determining jumping distance is Strength, then I, as a guy with Strength 2 (hey, I work out!) and Acrobatics zero can jump as far as an olympic gymnast with Strength 2 and Acrobatics 5. That is also stupid, as I suck at jumping because I have no skill.
This is just a test game, Dio. Nothing here is final, none of this is "official" 2.0 final draft material. This is is just a collection of stuff that is worth testing. Importantly, it is my test game, where I'm trying to test things that I think are worth testing. Anyone and everyone has is free and has always been free to get their own test game running to test rules they want to try on for size.
I'm testing this stuff. If you want to try to break it, please do. ^__^ That's the whole point.
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 20:09:12 GMT -5
Perhaps there could be some kind of option that allows Acrobats to move at super-human speeds like Wall-Crawlers and Web-Slingers can... but it shouldn't be cheap and it sure as hell shouldn't be automatic. I figure that just represents a higher Speed, really. Or Wall-Crawling or Web Slinging. ~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2009 20:15:26 GMT -5
Fair enough, but just buying a higher speed implies the character can run that fast as well as tumble/jump/whatever that fast, which may not be the case (Hulk)
What I like about the idea of making it an option that you can move more quickly is that a player could use the "specialty as an Action" option then to buy Jumping (pretty cheap) with that option to play Golden Age Superman or The Hulk
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Post by Dionon on Jun 4, 2009 20:20:05 GMT -5
I know this isn't offical, don't worry. I'm just pointing out what so far I perceive as a flaw. Personally I like Acrobatics as written, and believe that Marvel has used Acrobatics as written as well... Look at Spiderman who normally has Splash pages devoted to his Acrobatics use as he transverses entire city blocks (something that should be impossible using your rules) in one usage.
Honestly, give comic books, Mary Lou Reten could get 1500 feet away if she were a comic book hero in one panel. I agree that one single leap, sure, fine she could go her Strength, or 10 feet or so (if she had a 2) or Agility (which is 3... She's jumped the equivilent of 25 feet right?)
It's also the fact that I don't like the Jumping house rule as I find it inconsistant with Comic Book figures, who routinely defy the laws of physics and logic. Cyclops HAS jumped 25 feet in one leap. Cap HAS Tumbled a city block before.. Etc.
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 20:20:04 GMT -5
Hmm, I suppose I can picture that. It sounds a little like Wall-Crawling, only without the actual surface adhesion (just the x2 running aspect). I've seen a few players take Wall-Crawling and rename it Free Running or the like. I'd be interested to see an option as you suggest written out.
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Jun 4, 2009 20:21:31 GMT -5
Also... Limiting Acrobatics to Speed takes out the mode of travel for alot of Street Level heroes who move much faster over the rooftops then they can run, such as Daredevil.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2009 20:23:09 GMT -5
Find me that panel.
Sorry, but I'm calling your bluff on this one.
Spidey's "acrobatics" are with momentum from Web-Slinging, and Cap has sure as hell never tumbled 1500 feet in a single block.
Jumped DOWN from ridiculous heights? Yes.
And the problem with your notion that Mary Lou could tumble that far if she were a comic book character is that the game HAS to account for NORMAL human beings as well as super heroes, or its not comprehensive.
Are you going to claim that we should limit Action Numbers for normal humans now???
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Post by Dionon on Jun 4, 2009 20:35:31 GMT -5
Actually... Normal Humans in the books are relegated to ANs of 1 or 2... Look at the NPCs on Page 112 of the Core Book (and the first entry on 113) They are non super-powered, and in some cases, highly trained Normals... The most I see is a 2 in anything.
Though I will say there may be a flaw in ALL our thoughts... I just realized... I was going to use Cap as an Example... But his Acrobatics of 4... if limited to his speed... Lets him go 5 city blocks in one panel....
So... in this instance... I surrender.
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