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Post by takewithfood on Dec 2, 2014 16:54:18 GMT -5
Hey gang,
I don't know if we already have a D&D thread somewhere - I'm sure we do, actually, but I don't know where it is.. - so I thought I'd start a new one. ^__^
The 5e DMG is due out in a week, which is the last book in the basic series. I'm planning on running a game here soon, either starting just before Christmas or early in the New Year if that's more convenient for everyone. Anyone interested?
Any thoughts on the system so far?
~TWF
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Post by Gris on Dec 2, 2014 18:52:43 GMT -5
I haven't really played it yet, but it feels nice, fast and simple. I don't know if fast and simple enough for play by post, but it's cool.
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 2, 2014 19:32:30 GMT -5
It has some of the same problems as Marvel Heroic where there is a "reaction" mechanic that could bog things down if one were to try to plain the game down to the letter. I think I would bend the rules enough to have everyone post their actions for a round simultaneously, like you would with MURPG, and have the DM sort it all out.
Something like:
Paladin: I'm on horseback and I use 40' of movement to reach the goblin commander in the back rows; I don't care if I have to suffer some attacks of opportunity. I'm attacking with my lance [attack roll] [damage roll].
Fighter: I'm using enough movement to get within bow range of the nearest goblins and firing one arrow at each [attack rolls] [damage rolls].
Rogue: I'm moving up to the front ranks and attacking the nearest goblin, trying not to get in the Fighter's line of sight. Will anyone flank with me? If so I'll hold my attack until they get there and use my reaction to attack. [attack roll] [damage roll] [sneak attack damage if applicable].
Cleric: I'll move up, too, and help the Rogue flank. I'll use my action to Dash if necessary to get there, otherwise I'll cast Inflict Wounds on a goblin. [attack roll] [damage roll]
And then the DM plays it out according to initiative and posts the results. The DM will have to make some executive decisions but I think it's worth it if it means we can get through combat more swiftly and get on with the game.
~TWF
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Post by Dhark on Dec 3, 2014 4:25:32 GMT -5
I'm liking what I've seen thus far!
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Post by Gris on Dec 3, 2014 6:50:28 GMT -5
It has some of the same problems as Marvel Heroic where there is a "reaction" mechanic that could bog things down if one were to try to plain the game down to the letter. I think I would bend the rules enough to have everyone post their actions for a round simultaneously, like you would with MURPG, and have the DM sort it all out. Something like: Paladin: I'm on horseback and I use 40' of movement to reach the goblin commander in the back rows; I don't care if I have to suffer some attacks of opportunity. I'm attacking with my lance [attack roll] [damage roll].
Fighter: I'm using enough movement to get within bow range of the nearest goblins and firing one arrow at each [attack rolls] [damage rolls].
Rogue: I'm moving up to the front ranks and attacking the nearest goblin, trying not to get in the Fighter's line of sight. Will anyone flank with me? If so I'll hold my attack until they get there and use my reaction to attack. [attack roll] [damage roll] [sneak attack damage if applicable].
Cleric: I'll move up, too, and help the Rogue flank. I'll use my action to Dash if necessary to get there, otherwise I'll cast Inflict Wounds on a goblin. [attack roll] [damage roll]And then the DM plays it out according to initiative and posts the results. The DM will have to make some executive decisions but I think it's worth it if it means we can get through combat more swiftly and get on with the game. ~TWF Hmmm, that could work wonders, I like it.
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 3, 2014 8:56:14 GMT -5
The first D&D game I ever played by play-by-post online used a system like that for 3rd Ed, and at first I found it really bizarre because I was used to tabletop, but it actually worked out really well. It should be even easier in 5e since you don't need a grid at all, and combat is quite a bit more streamlined.
I'll put together a list of the house rules I'm thinking of instituting when I get a chance..
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 3, 2014 10:01:10 GMT -5
Proposed House Rules (WIP) * Alignment: not required, but you can record one if you like; these have effectively been replaced by traits/ideals/bonds/flaws.
* Races: No Dragonborn (not appropriate to setting), and no "variant" humans; Drow restricted.
* Classes: Beast Master (Ranger) animal companions have their HP increased from 4/level to 5/level.
* Backgrounds: I may offer two new backgrounds appropriate to the setting: Slave, and Squire.
* Equipment: Either choose equipment by class/background, or take average starting gold values and buy equipment; your choice.
* Spells: Paladin's Find Steed spell - really more of a clarification, but you can choose any beast with a CR of 1/2 or less that is of sufficient size/shape for you to mount. More advanced forms (pegasus, unicorn, gryphon, giant eagle, etc) may become available through special circumstances during play, not unlike obtaining a magical item.
* Creatures: Mastiffs upgraded from 1d8 HD (5 HP) to 2d8 HD (10 HP) so that small characters have something to ride that won't die from a fart aimed in their general direction.
* Experience Points: I may ditch these and just level the party up when appropriate. Encounters will still be built based on CR/XP budget as usual, but bean-counting is unnecessary in such a narrative-driven game.
* Mounted Combat: some clarifications: - if you control your mount's actions, you spend your movement to cause your mount to move; however, you get the benefit of your mount's movement rate instead of your own - likewise, you must still spend an action to use the Dash, Dodge or Disengage actions, but you and your mount each benefit from them
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 5, 2014 17:00:59 GMT -5
After talking to a friend who is DMing a game featuring a monk PC, I'm considering buffing them with extra Ki points equal to Wis mod, and one extra class skill. Their monk runs out of ki too quickly at low levels, and the monk's OOC utility is a little too weak to make up for their borderline 2nd-tier combat role.
~TWF
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Post by shenron on Dec 28, 2014 23:12:32 GMT -5
I am really liking the system. T o be honest, I ma actually super impressed with it. It has been the for at fantasy asked rpg that has gotten my thumbs up since seocnd edition.
I am actually planning on running a irl campaign soon TWF, let me know when you are finished with your house rules.
I do have some beef I with the dmg, they did some amazing things but really fell short in some areas that I think are really important but I digress,..
I also repurposed the drow, 5e and pathfinder both failed to update the fluff of the drow. Oh well...
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 29, 2014 7:40:38 GMT -5
Well, so far those house rules have worked out well in table top. I've also clarified that the beastmaster ranger's animal companion gains 1d8 HD per level and can roll them to recover HP during a rest like a PC can. Otherwise they either die really easily, or they suck all the healing out of the party.
I'm 100% convinced that they never even playtested the beastmaster. That, or at least they accidentally published an earlier version of it, because it's unplayable without a few house rules like that. If you increase the animal's survivability it's fine, though: my halfling on the back of his wolf is actually really scary as long as I can keep the thing alive.
I'd love to hear how your IRL campaign goes, Shenron! Please give us some updates from time to time if you can. ^__^
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Post by shenron on Dec 29, 2014 18:52:39 GMT -5
Ya? I have not had a chance to read through everything yet but I am surprised they missed so much on the Beastmaster but it is WoTc so I am not surprised.
Do you have a google doc or something with your house rules in it?
I am hoping to get character creation up and going this week or early next week for my IRL campaign. We will see on how schedules and everything else works out. You should PM your e-mail. I have some awesome google docs I have been working on.
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 29, 2014 22:41:36 GMT -5
No google doc yet - I'm still very much in the early stages of completing a list. But I might get around to it. Overall it's a good system, though.
~TWF
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Post by Dhark on Dec 30, 2014 3:09:20 GMT -5
Is it my imagination, or are the guidelines for encounter generation MUCH more convoluted in 5e?
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Post by takewithfood on Dec 30, 2014 8:22:24 GMT -5
Yeah, they're pretty bad, I think. Well, I like everything except the multipliers for groups of monsters. For starters, I think they overestimate the value of the action economy. Yes, a group of 4 goblins with 1 giant rat (450 XP encounter) gets to take a lot more actions than a solitary ogre (also a 450 XP encounter), but they are less likely to hit, each hit deals less damage, and they probably aren't going to focus fire. And yes, the ogre is more vulnerable to save-or-suck spells like Hold Monster, but the goblins are more vulnerable to area-of-effect spells. Also, what they don't seem to be taking into account is that as the group kills a goblin or two, the group gets weaker: fewer actions, less damage per turn. Meanwhile, the solitary ogre fights at full capacity even at 1 HP. Anyway, that's not even my real problem with the system. The most inexplicable thing to me is that even though the goblins are considered double the challenge when they're grouped up, they aren't worth double the XP: The Ogre is actually worth 450 XP, but the goblins are only worth 225. ? WTF? If they're so hard to fight, why shouldn't they also be worth as much XP? I don't get it, and it isn't explained anywhere. I've decided not to bean-count and just level my players up when appropriate. I do use encounter XP as a guideline, but I'm not going to be like "I know you just achieved a major goal, but you're all 12 XP short, so go kill a kobold." All that said, I like the rest of the encounter system, and this is my modified way of doing it: 1. Use the "Thresholds by Character Level" table to figure out what an easy, medium, hard, and deadly encounter is for the party. 2. Decide how hard I want an encounter to be, and set aside that many XP. 3. Decide what sort of monster(s) I want them to encounter. 4. Decide how many: if 4 or more, divide the XP threshold by 2. Then populate the encounter until the threshold is filled, more or less. 5. I don't care what they say, the encounter is worth what it's worth. 6. Optional: Add in some complications to the encounter: perhaps a creature is diseased (weaker, but possibly contagious), or the encounter takes place in unusual territory, or an innocent NPC is involved in the fight somehow and is either going to screw it up or endanger themselves, etc. If the complication is a significant obstacle, adjust the XP accordingly. Most of the time that's really easy because you can do step 1 ahead of time, and the rest can be done on the fly in seconds.
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Post by shenron on Jan 2, 2015 3:11:02 GMT -5
Yeah, they're pretty bad, I think. Well, I like everything except the multipliers for groups of monsters. For starters, I think they overestimate the value of the action economy. Yes, a group of 4 goblins with 1 giant rat (450 XP encounter) gets to take a lot more actions than a solitary ogre (also a 450 XP encounter), but they are less likely to hit, each hit deals less damage, and they probably aren't going to focus fire. And yes, the ogre is more vulnerable to save-or-suck spells like Hold Monster, but the goblins are more vulnerable to area-of-effect spells. Also, what they don't seem to be taking into account is that as the group kills a goblin or two, the group gets weaker: fewer actions, less damage per turn. Meanwhile, the solitary ogre fights at full capacity even at 1 HP. Anyway, that's not even my real problem with the system. The most inexplicable thing to me is that even though the goblins are considered double the challenge when they're grouped up, they aren't worth double the XP: The Ogre is actually worth 450 XP, but the goblins are only worth 225. ? WTF? If they're so hard to fight, why shouldn't they also be worth as much XP? I don't get it, and it isn't explained anywhere. I've decided not to bean-count and just level my players up when appropriate. I do use encounter XP as a guideline, but I'm not going to be like "I know you just achieved a major goal, but you're all 12 XP short, so go kill a kobold." All that said, I like the rest of the encounter system, and this is my modified way of doing it: 1. Use the "Thresholds by Character Level" table to figure out what an easy, medium, hard, and deadly encounter is for the party. 2. Decide how hard I want an encounter to be, and set aside that many XP. 3. Decide what sort of monster(s) I want them to encounter. 4. Decide how many: if 4 or more, divide the XP threshold by 2. Then populate the encounter until the threshold is filled, more or less. 5. I don't care what they say, the encounter is worth what it's worth. 6. Optional: Add in some complications to the encounter: perhaps a creature is diseased (weaker, but possibly contagious), or the encounter takes place in unusual territory, or an innocent NPC is involved in the fight somehow and is either going to screw it up or endanger themselves, etc. If the complication is a significant obstacle, adjust the XP accordingly. Most of the time that's really easy because you can do step 1 ahead of time, and the rest can be done on the fly in seconds. THANK YOU TWK! This has made my life so much easier. Ya, someone really wanted to add complicated math somewhere in the system and they snuck it in, lol! You are a genius my friend. So, I have been working on house rules myself - I have used a lot of your suggestions - I am compiling a google doc as we speak. Plus I am also working on a few races. I will send you the link when I get more finished with it. Some of the character creation stuff I did is just my own flavor. Anyway, so my house rule list is a generic list that if you dont have X in your setting then dont use said rule. Anyway, here are some things I have tested and though about and I wanted to see what you thought; > Dragonborn: Their breath weapon gains the recharge mechanic (5 & 6) instead of short rest > Ranger (Beast Master): The companion you choose starts out with 3d8 Hit Dice and gains an additional 1d8 Hit Die every time the Ranger gains a level. These Hit Dice can be rolled to recover Hit Points during a rest like a normal PC. So, and a random note I think Pathfinder and 5e both failed the Drow miserable. They both had a chance to re-imagine them but didn't. They just do not make sense how they are portrayed and would not survive as written. Here is my changes and take on them - Basically I run them as a Neutral Evil - esq Romulan Empire. Descended from an earlier sub race of dark-skinned elves, the drow were banished from the surface world for following the Goddess Lolth down the path to evil and corruption. Now they have built their own civilization in the depths of the Underdark, patterned after Lolth and other dark beings. Also called Dark Elves, the Drow have black skin that resembles polishes obsidian and stark white or pale yellow hair. They commonly have very pale eyes (so pale to even be mistakens as white) in shades of lilac, silver, pink, red, and blue. They tend to be smaller and thinner than most elves. Drow adventurers tend be rare but more more common than you realize for good or evil. Ability Score Increase: Your Charisma score increases by 1 Darkvision: Your darkvision has a radius of 60 ft. Drow Magic: You know the Dancing Lights cantrip. When you reach 3rd level, you can cast the Faerie Fire spell once per day. When you reach 5th level, you can also cast Darkness once per day. Charisma is your spellcasting ability for these spells. Drow Weapon Training: You have proficiency with rapiers, shortswords, and hand crossbows. The Darkness of the DrowDrow are extremely loyal and civilized to other Drow. They believe that they are the master race destined to rule over all others, and this instills them with an innate sense of cold-hearted camaraderie. Their true evil nature comes out in their treatment of lesser races (i.e, everyone who is not a Drow, including other elves). That is not to say that there is not political infighting amongst Drow families/noble houses. There is a great deal of that. However, it is mainly through alliance building and gaining and losing influence through successful (or unsuccessful) hegemonic ventures. Drow rarely murder one another, or order assassinations of their rivals. It is so much more satisfying and delicious to watch a rival be humiliated amongst her peers in the political arena through failure than it is to murder her. After all, if you kill her, the fun ends. That is not to say that Drow do not kill one another. But those Drow who have been found to have committed crimes within Drow society (such as killing a fellow Drow, betraying the location of Drow fortifications in the Darklands, etc.) are punished with brutal finality. They are either transformed into Driders, to forever mark them as the shameful beasts that they are, or they are tortured and killed. But generally, the Drow view the lives of other Drow as being far too valuable to just throw away. Thus, 85% of Drow fall into the Neutral Evil category and are culture of cruel and ruthless pragmatists. They see the value of order, stability and discipline, but they frown upon rigidity and the idea of "honor" makes absolutely no sense to them. They appreciate flexibility of thought and action, but despise disorder and capriciousness, because that can lead to strategic losses that the Drow cannot afford. Giving in to one's passions is just as weak and stupid to a Drow as standing by one's word of honor when there is no reason to. As a result of their pragmatic views, Drow happily worship Lolth as a majority but many other Drow worship all kinds of Evil Gods, Devils, Demons and Daemons. Whatever being can help advance the cause of the Drow by making the correct propitiations, that is the being the Drow will worship. They are many Drow that forge their own paths but never enough to help fix their dark reputation.
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