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Post by Rinjo on Jul 4, 2009 13:02:24 GMT -5
Lol...love it. No man.. No... This one goes to 11. My point still stands though. Rc at 11 has a weapon bonus. Cc at 11 has ability bonus... Still... Mastery at 11 has the potential to devistate a whole lot.. Its probably not that expensive after all... Especially at 11.
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Post by dorkknight23 on Jul 4, 2009 14:39:37 GMT -5
Well, once you get to that scale (at least the way I'm proposing it,) weapon modifiers and ability bonuses aren't as much of a factor. Anyone with Close Combat 11 (the only canon example I can think of would be The Champion of the Universe) who spends the stones and drama points is pretty much kicking ass, weapon mod or no weapon mod. I guess it is a caveat that 11's are generally reserved for the Cosmically Powerful or "Omega Level" or whatever. People who play in a decidedly bigger and scarier sandbox than most of the Marvel Universe. On top of that, even without factoring in bonuses or modifiers, Masteries have multiple creative applications both inside and outside of combat.
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 6, 2009 22:29:36 GMT -5
I'm probably going to steal the Power Package idea and test it in 1:1M, by the way. I also really like the "communicate" option, and I plan on stealing that, as well.
EDIT: I'm probably going to steal ideas from your Phase Shift, too, but I'm unsure about Phased characters being able to affect each other.. does this happen in the comics at all? (I've actually always wondered, since Kitty can drag people around when they're phased, which would indicate that she can touch them.. however, they don't seem to have any significant mass..)
~TWF
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Post by Rinjo on Jul 7, 2009 1:58:55 GMT -5
So is 2.0 reall just... TWF's retread?
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Post by White on Jul 7, 2009 2:30:00 GMT -5
I remember that there were a few times Kitty was fighting someone phased. Once I know it was pretty similar to what we should call 'cat-fight', lol.
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Post by dorkknight23 on Jul 7, 2009 2:48:00 GMT -5
I remember that there were a few times Kitty was fighting someone phased. Once I know it was pretty similar to what we should call 'cat-fight', lol. I was thinking of the specific instance from Eve of Destruction where Kitty fought one of the Acolytes who could phase (...Scanner? I don't remember the Acolyte's really other than Fabian Cortes,) while both were in that state. This might be worth a +1 option increase to the AN if not (like a "unique phase signature" or something).
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Post by takewithfood on Jul 7, 2009 9:19:44 GMT -5
So is 2.0 reall just... TWF's retread? The 2.0 discussion is where I'm getting most of my ideas, absolutely - but I have no ownership over 2.0 as a whole. I'm just running a little further with it than most other contributors in that I'm assembling a set of rules that I want to test and running a big game. DK and I are obviously borrowing a lot of stuff from each other, and in the end I think our systems will look very similar, which is encouraging, actually. And: then I'm all good with the phase vs phase fight rule. ^__^ Gives you a real incentive not to just phase a couple opponents as a means of getting them out of the fight: they will wallop you for it. ~TWF
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Post by dorkknight23 on Aug 25, 2009 23:38:26 GMT -5
Intelligence-Based Energy:
I’ve been reluctant to put Intelligence-based energy in the rules previously because 1) it’s one of the rules I immediately see abused, 2) using the Energy Reserve and Stamina rules can prove a very effective mimic of the Intelligence-based regeneration. However, I feel there needs to be some incentive for Intelligence-based characters to do that.
Intelligence-Based Energy will increase the cost of Intelligence by 2, but it offers a -2 discount to both Energy Battery and Stamina (so Energy Reserve would cost ([Health-2] or [Energy Reserve Number-2] * [Energy Reserve] or [Health] as appropriate [subtract the 2 from whichever value is higher, minimum of a value subtracted is 1,] and Stamina would cost Health+Stamina Number-1.) "Extreme Intelligence-Based Energy" (think Half-Faerie Blood or the equivalent) would increase the cost to 3, but offer a -3 discount to both Energy Reserve and Stamina (so Energy Reserve would cost ([Health-3] or [Energy Reserve Number-3] * [Energy Reserve] or [Health] as appropriate [subtract the 3 from whichever value is higher, minimum of a value subtracted is 1,] and Stamina would cost Health+Stamina Number-2.)
For example, if you have Intelligence of 5 and Intelligence-based energy under the current rules, it would cost 6 white (3 white times 2.) Under this idea, having as close as I could come (Intelligence 5, Health 3, Energy Reserve 2, and Stamina 3 would cost 5 white and 2 red. For 1 red stone less, the character’s energy reserve would be 12 and Regen 5, so it’s slightly off, but it almost works. And it fits into the current overarching rules.)
Vehicles:
I generally like the way vehicles work in the original rules. The one thing they’re genuinely missing is pricing. Here are the ways to get vehicles.
Wealth: as with basic equipment, appropriate wealth can be used to purchase an “off of the line” vehicle. They can later be tweaked or improved (supercharged, or pimped, or whatever) by Inventing (either the owner, another PC, or a friendly [possibly even unfriendly] NPC) at GM discretion.
Using stones: For exemplary vehicles at start of play, like the Green Goblin’s glider, stones may be used. This requires the input of both player and GM to come up with what seems like an equitable price.
MN+2 stones, with MN being the highest value (speed, damage, maneuver modifier, or defense modifier,) is a generally good place to start. All other attributes of vehicles should be less than that. [NOTE: Difficulty and Resistance to operate the vehicle are independent of this, and should always be arbitrated by the GM.] It’s up to the GM and player to decide these values should be (as appropriate to the vehicle,) however, using the pre-existing vehicles as baselines. Ghost Rider’s motorcycle, for example, should be comparable to a supercharged motorcycle.
They can later be tweaked or improved (supercharged, or pimped, or whatever) by Inventing (either the owner, another PC, or a friendly [possibly even unfriendly] NPC) at GM discretion.
Team vehicles: if a team has an appropriate Inventor or Influence-type character (like Iron Man or Professor X,) the GM might provide the players with a team vehicle “free of cost” (or free of player stones or wealth at any rate.) The GM should come up with something for this, using a baseline vehicle as a template (perhaps with some increased.)
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Post by dorkknight23 on Sept 16, 2009 20:36:52 GMT -5
New Advantages and Disadvantages
Most of these are lifted from the 2.0 thread. Subject, of course, to plausibility, and GM approval. No amount of disadvantages can decrease an action to cost 2 less than its normal AN, or 1/3 a character creation point, whichever is higher. Should disadvantages exceed this amount.
Lowest Amount You Can Pay, After Disadvantages: 1: 1/3 2: 1/3 3: 1/3 4: 2/3 5: 1 6: 2 7: 3 8: 4 9: 6 10: 9
Disadvantages
Skill Packages For Fun and Profit
Your character is limited to 9 action boxes, and some concepts might seem to be more skilled or have a wider variety of powers than most. Power Packages can help conserve action boxes for super powers, but some characters have a wide range of skills (and possibly some powers) but are also restricted to 9 action boxes. What needs to be done in these situations? In play, actions can be combined…
Sidebar: A Rough Guide for Combining Actions: Spend 1 line of experience. Combine two action boxes into one box, with the lower Action Number of the two.
Or, the character can make a Skill Package. Skill Packages are for the skilful superhero in need of some spare action boxes. Instead of being related only to powers, these combine two actions, often renamed into a new action that can function as either of the original actions.
They are built in a manner similar to power packages. You take one action (the one with the lowest value,) as your base. You can then add an advantage “ACTION at AN” which costs 1 less than the amount added to cost level for the action, or +1, whichever is higher. One restriction to keep in mind is stone limits in action boxes. Even if you have two or more actions in an action box, you are restricted to your Action Number + any bonuses (if any) stones in an action box at a time. These may be divided between actions, but this prevents the full stone expenditures towards both actions.
The GM, of course, has final say on whether a combination is allowable. Advantages and disadvantages may be incorporated as well.
Some Example Skill Packages: Statecraft: AN+2 Social Skills, with Leadership [+1] at AN, and a built in -1 discount to Wealth [+1] Ninja: AN+6 Close Combat, with Ranged Combat at AN [+1], Stealth at AN [+1], Concentration at AN [+2], and (Ability Bonus and Weapon Modifier or 2 Weapon Modifiers) [+2]
Equipment Building Rules For the core mechanics, see The Guide to Hulk and the Avengers page 90-91, Appendix D. These are fundamentally unchanged, but, as always, are subject to GM approval.
Powered Armor
Powered Armor, as it stands in the core rules, is a complicated addition that seems potentially the best option over any other. Why be mutant, metahuman, or mage, when you can put on a high-tech battlesuit and kick some evil butt. While high-tech battlesuits are awesome, they should not be the obvious choice for new characters.
The goals for the retread power armor are: 1) slightly decrease its power (to make it a powerful alternative without being gamebreaking.) 2) simplify the rules to make them.
A BRIEF SIDEBAR ON ROBOTS: Robots are now built no different than any other character. However, they would easily suggest certain modifiers (Extended Lifespan, Cybernetic Senses, and Self-Contained Modifier) and challenges (Non-Human Appearance, Alien Mindset/Difficulty Understanding Humanity, etc.) Robots may pay +1 to the cost level of their intelligence to have the capabilities of an equivalent Suit Intelligence = Intelligence.
Powered Armor can be theoretically built during play using Inventing, subject to the same restrictions and GM approval. Most characters, however, should be encouraged to build their armor at start.
Powered Armor is purchased the same as any other equipment, except every ability, action, and modifier receives an automatic -2 discount to cost level. They receive no additional discounts to abilities, actions, or modifiers.
Powered Armor takes one panel to take on or take off. Powered Armor users are limited to using 2 actions per panel like other characters.
Wealthy characters can benefit more from funding powered armor, from R&D to other resources. Stones spent purchasing Wealth may be refunded back into purchasing your powered armor at a flat 1-to-1 exchange.
Finally, Powered Armor abilities, actions, and modifiers can be improved either through the use of inventing (and GM approval) or with the expenditure of Lines of Experience as normal.
Powered Armor is thus a versatile and potentially powerful option for characters, but not to the point of outstripping other types of characters at start of play. It’s only after heavy investments that a guy like Iron Man begins to outperform other powerful characters.
Iconic Equipment
Captain America’s Shield, The Silver Surfer’s Board, Quasar’s Quantum Bands, Thor’s Hammer, Venom’s symbiote. There are some items so iconic to a character that they serve of a major part of who the character is and what the character stands for. They’re what makes that character that character.
When creating iconic equipment for a character, you first will need GM approval and assistance in the process. The GM, as always, has final say to the price of anything.
NOTE: Powered Armor as described CANNOT be iconic, no matter how crucial it is to the character.
Iconic Equipment is something that is core to your character concept (but, to reiterate, not Powered Armor.) It should be equipment used for something, either weapons, a handy device, or something provided for defense again, powered armor doesn’t count.)
We clear on the powered armor not counting for iconic equipment? Good, just testing
Iconic Equipment can, unlike other equipment, be improved by lines of experience, for a cost of an additional +1 to cost level to the relevant ability/action/modifier. This means, by investing lines into the weapon, the player can improve it’s weapon modifier, defense bonus, or action numbers.
Mentor: (Special Modifier) Cost = 1 white stone, see below
At GM’s discretion, particular intelligent or magical or other iconic items might extra lines of experience to the owner (as per a master-student relationship) towards a certain ability, action, or modifier.
For abilities, actions, or modifiers with no increase to cost level (i.e. a base cost of Cost Level = AN+0), then the Mentor modifier costs 1 white stone. For each +1 to AN, the cost of the modifier increases on the cost level chart. So Mentor (Flight,) for example, would cost 3 white stones. Mentor (Toughness) would cost 4 white stones. Mentor cannot be used on power packages or other combined actions.
(This will, of course, change the price of some of the items presented in the back of the Core Book, X-Men Guide, Hulk and Avengers, and Spider-Man’s Guide to New York.)
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Post by dorkknight23 on Sept 16, 2009 20:39:03 GMT -5
Coming...eventually...
Some more retread write-ups, to illustrate some of the changes to the system.
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Post by dorkknight23 on Sept 25, 2009 16:26:35 GMT -5
The sky’s 10’s the Limit
Closing a minor loophole. Ability Numbers, Action Numbers, and Modifiers can be improved or stacked through actions like Growth or Metamorphosis. Should a combination occur that would increase an ability to 11 or above, it is treated as 10, no matter how high the number gets. An ability, action number, or modifier of 11, and the special benefits that provides, can only be acquired through lines of experience and such an increase is permanent.
Example: Mister Munchkin has Growth 1 and a Strength of 9. 1 stone of Growth gives 2 stones to Strength, but instead of reaching 11, his Strength can only reach 10 when improved by Growth.
2x Healing Rate: Cost Level = Health
Heal at double the listed rate.
+1 to cost level; Regenerate stones at a rate of 3 red/2 health.
Quick Thinker Cost Level = +1 cost to Intelligence.
Must be purchased in conjunction with Intelligence based-energy. For those low-durability, high intelligence, characters who are exceptionally quick on their feet. These characters use Intelligence for their regeneration rate instead of Health. It does not effect their energy reserve, however.
Currently Playtesting: Lowered Modifier Improving Cost As I’ve been thinking and running games with characters interested in improving Modifiers, a flat 30/MN is a tad excessive. WildKnight had another method and I’m starting to consider going for that. For improving Modifiers ONLY: 10+(Y-X) where X is the current cost, and Y is the new cost in white stones. For example, Tough Guy has a Toughness to (+4) and he wants to add “Nullify Armor Penetration” after getting into one too many tussles with adamantium weaponry. Toughness (+4) costs 6 white, Toughness (+4; Nullifies Armor Penetration) costs 9 white. It will cost 13 lines of experience for him to do this (10+[9-6].)
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Post by dorkknight23 on Sept 25, 2009 16:26:57 GMT -5
The First Avenger Himself Captain America Steven Rogers Height: 6’2” Weight: 220 lbs. Eye Color: Blue Hair Color: Blonde Species: Mutagenic Abilities: Int: 3 Str: 3 [Efficient] Agi: 3 [Efficient] Spd: 3 [Efficient] Hlth: 3 ER: 1 Stam: 2 Health: 3 Energy: 12 Reserve: 6 Actions: Close Combat 7 (Agility bonus or Weapon Modifier; US Military Training, Shield Fighting, Martial Arts, Boxing, Wrestling, Judo, Training Others Hand-to-Hand) Ranged Combat 7 (Weapon Modifier; Handguns, Military Weapons, Shield Specialty, Shield Emphasis, Trick Shots, Shield Emphasis, Shield Emphasis) Social Skills 5 (Military Protocol, Avengers Protocol, Persuasion, Authority, Diplomacy) Leadership 7 (Efficient) Stealth 4 (Covert Ops, Surveillance, Demolitions, Impersonation) Acrobatics 5 (Agility bonus) Vehicle Operations 5 (Motorcycles, Military Vehicles, Aircraft, Quinjet Emphasis) Artist 3 (Drawing, Illustration Specialty, Illustration Emphasis) Modifiers: Mental Defense (+4) 2x Healing Rate [regenerate 3 red/2 white of health] Reflexive Dodge (+3) Toughness (+1) Innate Talent (Shield Throwing) (+2) Wealth (1) Equipment: Captain America’s Mighty Shield: [Iconic Equipment] Indestructible; (+6) Close Weapon, Ranged Weapon, or Defense modifier [can only function as one at a time; can be improved by Lines of Experience,] Nullifies Armor Penetration [defense,] Armor Penetrating [weapons] Scale Male/Kevlar Costume: (+1) to Defense Challenges: Code of Honor 2 Deadly Enemies (Red Skull 5; HYDRA 5) Without Shield: 48 1 red With Shield: 94 1 red [Shield Costs 46 white.] Notes: My main goal was to make something that would seem like Cap around the end of Civil War. 1) Abilities of 3 This goes back and forth with Cap, whether he’s superhuman or not, but I decided to go with the idea that he was basically “just a hair above” peak human efficiency. Efficient with his physical abilities all at 3 made sense. More super-soldier-infused versions of Cap would, understandably, have Strength and Agilities of 4. His Stamina of 2 [and the Healing Rate] up his regen rate to half his energy pool, giving him a sort of pseudo-healing factor [regenerating half his energy pool per panel.] That, plus the heavy mod stones he’s getting either to defense or offense from his shield, and the multiple Efficient advantages, means Cap can go on fighting with heavyweights for a long time. 2) Increasing Leadership and Vehicle Ops Leadership 5, you’ve got to be kidding me. Cap is one of the best team leaders, an expert strategist, and should be at least Cyclops’ equal. Vehicle Ops was increased so he could pilot the Quinjet. 3) Stealth and Artist Both fit his background and weren’t represented in his original CAD. 4) Higher Shield Price This might seem a problem with Iconic Equipment, but, I think the Shield, as it is currently, is quite a bit underpriced. Getting hit by that shield, when thrown by Captain America, is basically an invitation to take out most crooks. I’m not up to putting together a 40 stone equivalent (or even a 20 stone, which seems feasible.) But, needless to say, I believe it’s very possible (especially by toning down the shield, which can, as iconic equipment, be improved by lines.)
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Post by dorkknight23 on Oct 2, 2009 15:55:53 GMT -5
New LOE rule in playtesting:
Pulling Out All The Stops
Characters can and should push themselves to the limits, and characters that do deserve to be rewarded. Any character who spends the maximum number of stones they can in an Ability or Action (including Ability bonuses for actions,) as well as spending a Drama Point may receive 1 additional LOE from the GM to spend towards the Ability or Action. Modifiers may also be improved but must be used to modify a full Action’s stones with a Drama point. The GM has final decision how this LOE is spent.
Example: Tough Guy wants to improve his toughness. When an enemy readies his blaster, he shifts all his stones from Close Combat defense and spends a drama point. He ends up deflecting the enemy’s attack, and gets an extra LOE to spend at the end of the issue to improve his Toughness. If Tough Guy had put no stones into Defense and charged forward and just punched the villain, while spending a Drama Point, the GM may instead have him use that LOE to improve Close Combat (even though Tough Guy’s player wants to use it otherwise.)
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Post by dorkknight23 on Oct 5, 2009 13:18:07 GMT -5
Made an easy-to-read compilation here. Will open new discussion thread.
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