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Post by ninjapirate on Oct 18, 2009 23:54:18 GMT -5
Ok Hey guys - I will be attempting to republish the three books into one large book. The cost of the book will be around 7 Euros. It will be printed on Publisher Grade paper and bound with the standard paperback binding. All three books - totalling 350 pages. I will be arranging the character sheets, actions and modifiers and equipment pages into the same sections and then putting the adventures all in the same section so it will be one large book rather than several books one after another. I will be creating one for myself either way - so if your interested let me know  I am making 0 profit from this by the way, the cost to produce is 6.27 Euro. The Post & Packaging will be a bit extra but it really won't be that bad. Considering each book retails for 19.99 or there abouts its quite a good bargin. Be reminded though - the will be in black and white (apart from front and back cover) and will be printed on Publisher Grade paper. They are also paperbacks. Anyways, let me know Pinj |
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Post by Shadowbane on Oct 19, 2009 0:40:50 GMT -5
Thats is... whats the word.... oh ya illegal.
The only place it might be legal is China.
Might want to check your countries copyright laws.
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Post by ninjapirate on Oct 19, 2009 0:50:13 GMT -5
Actually it is not illegal. It is fair use. The books are no longer in print and I am not recieving any profit. However if the books were in print, it would be.
I will also be providing access to the PDFs of the guides if anybody wants them - although in respect to the forum I will NOT be posting links, you can contact me through my email or msn for that.
I just thought people would like the chance to get a copy of the rules to have on their shelf.
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Post by Neros on Oct 19, 2009 1:13:50 GMT -5
I would also say its illegal.. Even though the books arent in production and all that, they still carry the Marvel logo, characters and Marvel can still make a profit from the books (you can still buy them certain places)..
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Post by ninjapirate on Oct 19, 2009 1:44:17 GMT -5
But what I'm saying is that copyright or not, it is legal under the 'Fair Use' part of copyright law. Since I am not making profit and techincally this counts as eductation since you are using it for reference...it is legal.
And either way; I will be doing it for myself - I do own all three books - except they are currently in my girlfriend's parents house on the other side of the country and will be for some time. I am just offering anyone who would like a copy - to have one. The only thing they are paying for is the printing cost and postage.
Pinj
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Post by pneumonica on Oct 19, 2009 17:23:38 GMT -5
It doesn't fall under fair use. Publishing somebody else's work is specifically prohibited under copyright law. "Fair use" means quoting passages for certain purposes, such as academic papers or journalistic review. In those cases, you can even post pictures, trademarks, etc., but the most that fair use grants you is the ability to use limited quotes from the work in question. Republishing somebody else's work in toto is only going to get you arrested.
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Oct 19, 2009 18:05:04 GMT -5
While I'm no expert, I'm pretty sure someone still owns the rights to the books, and even if they're unlikely to come after you, that's a chance I'd definately rather not risk if I were you.
Seriously, if they try suing you or anything, even if you win, paying for a lawyer still sucks.
To quote the Obi-Wan, "Don't try it."
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Post by Shadowbane on Oct 19, 2009 23:24:46 GMT -5
From copyright.gov
First read the first paragraph. Also RPG's are not Education they are Entertainment. You are perverting the law. Now this is for the US and no other country. Like I said before Check your countries.
Just because they are not in print doesn't mean anything. You can still buy them brand new. I bought mine from an online book store brand new. If you look at the DnD online stuff you will notice there were no tables name of things were changed and it made no reference to any named person in the DnD lore. This is the reason they were able to do it. I know several sites were closed do to the fact they posted the tables and used Names.
One of the rights accorded to the owner of copyright is the right to reproduce or to authorize others to reproduce the work in copies or phonorecords. This right is subject to certain limitations found in sections 107 through 118 of the copyright law (title 17, U. S. Code). One of the more important limitations is the doctrine of “fair use.” The doctrine of fair use has developed through a substantial number of court decisions over the years and has been codified in section 107 of the copyright law.
Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:
1. The purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
2. The nature of the copyrighted work
3. The amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
4. The effect of the use upon the potential market for, or value of, the copyrighted work
The distinction between fair use and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission.
Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.
The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”
Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself. It does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in the work.
The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission.
When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of fair use would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered fair nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.
FL-102, Revised May 2009
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Post by Neros on Oct 21, 2009 9:39:22 GMT -5
Ow, ow, ow... Stop using such heavy posts.. It hurts my brain >.<
But I still agree with most here.. It would be illegal..
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Post by ninjapirate on Nov 5, 2009 6:45:49 GMT -5
The distinction between fair use and infringement may be unclear and not easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission.
And technically it is for educational purposes. People need to learn the rules, people need to learn the character building stats. And people need reference material. Also don't be so quick to put things in a box. As it states above - there is no appointed quantity of pages, lines or words allotted to the 'Fair Use' clause of Copyright.
Secondly - there is no reason I can't host it on my webspace - I have my original hardback copies and I have backed up copies for the reason that I wish to not loose them. If they become
damaged or lost - I have those copies - which I can access anywhere in the world.
Anyone is free to download them so long as they have their own retail copies. If you don't like the idea - don't download them. I'm not forcing anyone to do that. Nor am I suggesting anyone does. I am saying that they are there if you would like to back up YOUR copies.
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Post by Stain on Nov 5, 2009 17:03:25 GMT -5
Dude...no offense intended here but your logic is misguided.
Part of my professional responsibilities deals with honoring copyright, and I can tell you that your argument holds about as much water as a fishing net.
Your argument for education protection is no different than saying you could publish Microsoft's code for Windows 7 so other's can learn it. Not gonna fly. Although educational institutions are given plenty of grace with regard to copyright infringement, they are by no means immune to it and it is not unheard of for an institution to be sued for infringement.
Providing open access to copyrighted materials on the web is a big no no, no matter if you own the original work or not. There's your reason. You could host them if there was some sort of protection mechanism to guarantee that only legitimate owners of the books could access it.
Even if, and I do mean "if" in the most remotely possible way, you managed to win a case based on your arguments given Marvell (now Disney) would absolutely burry you in court costs and lawyer fees.
Heed the advice of others: don't do it.
Also...if you do host this material on your website then I will be compelled to revoke permission to host my program on there as well. I'm not trying to be mean, but I just do not want in any way to be associated with pirating intellectual property.
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Post by Ricochet on Nov 16, 2009 10:55:38 GMT -5
Go ahead, do it. They'll never find out unless we report you to the authorities...
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Post by ninjapirate on Dec 2, 2009 7:53:59 GMT -5
Yo Ricochet - you know that sounded like a veiled threat.
And Guys - unless you have NEVER used pirated software, music or anything - then don't lecture me about how bad it is. I appreciate your legal advice - but not criticism.
This very site is illegal. Your logo uses a trademarked logo. Your characters are based around copyright characters. Don't bollock on to me about legalities.
Stain : Your character builder is 100% illegal considering you don't have permision to replicate the system mechanics in any shape, form or part without the original creators written consent.
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Post by bias on Dec 2, 2009 10:55:33 GMT -5
oh, good then it's my turn. I have never used pirated software, music, or anything in my life. If you do it is illegal. We do not encourage illegal acts on these forums.
The very core of your Original post is that the books retail for $20 each and you'll be getting them to us for $7 for all of them. It's piracy plain and simple. We don't encourage piracy or doing illegal things around here. If you want to pirate something, go somewhere else.
When it comes to the four factor test, we pass on all four counts.
I don't know much about stain's character builder so I can offer no comment on it. However, D&D, a much larger franchise, seems to allow them, so I guess that they are legal.
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Post by Stain on Dec 2, 2009 13:45:18 GMT -5
Considering your demonstration of copyright law knowledge, your assessment of my program's legality is incredulous.
If you read through my program's thread, you'll see that I am very sensitive to respecting copyright. Should Marvel find that my program violates acceptable use, then I will respectfully remove all links to it.
Your diversionary defense of accusing others of committing piracy is immature and provides absolutely nothing for your case.
We appreciate your zeal to contribute to the community, but do yourself a favor and stop defending your position; just let the issue drop.
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