Spider-Man, Back in Black?

[WildKnight]

"Grit" and "Spider-Man" don't seem to go well together...

[slimgoodbody]

I think Donald Glover as Spiderman would be an inspired choice. This guy sums it up pretty well.
chud.com/articles/articles/23904/1/THE-DEVIN039S-ADVOCATE-WHY-IS-SPIDER-MAN-WHITE/Page1.html

[takewithfood]

I think the person who wrote that article is missing something that is at least somewhat important.

While I agree entirely that "white is default", that only explains how Peter Parker came to be white in the first place. It does not, however, mean that changing his ethnicity would not also change a part of who the character is.

Being white is, for most white people, anyway, part of someone's identity. It shapes what we think of ourselves, what we think about others, what other people think about us - and by extension, it affects the way we treat others and the way others treat us. For some people it's a minor, maybe even completely subconscious influence, but for some it can be incredibly important to the point of constantly being on the forefront of their mind.

Yes, white is common, and you could even say "Default". But it is not an absence of a cultural, ethnic, or racial identity. That is what the author doesn't seem to grasp.

Changing Peter Parker's ethnicity from white to anything is making a change. Some people may not care, some people may prefer it or dislike it, but it's still a change.

~TWF

[WildKnight]

Jun 4, 2010 0:56:42 GMT -5 takewithfood said:

Yes, white is common, and you could even say "Default". But it is not an absence of a cultural, ethnic, or racial identity. That is what the author doesn't seem to grasp.
~TWF

That was a perfect explanation of how I feel. Thank you TWF.

**************************************************

I guess ultimately my question regarding making a major character black is why? If your only response is why not? then we're back to making changes just for the sake of change itself. Why not make him a gay single mother crack addict? Oops, sorry. I forgot, only white people can be crooks and drug addicts. Otherwise its "stereotyping".

Again, I say... if you're concerned about the lack of minority super heroes, create new ones. Knock it off with the gender reassignment, sudden realizations of homosexuality, and sudden ethnic replacements. Its obvious, its ridiculous, and its getting annoying.

Actually I'd like to do a survey of comic book characters. According to the 2009 survey, only 13 (12.8, to be exact) percent of Americans reported to consider themselves "black"... I'm guessing at least that percentage of super heroes are "black." If we want to be "fair" about all this, we should make Parker latin... over 15% of Americans are of latin origin, and I'd bet there are far fewer latino heroes than black ones. Bonus points if we make him an illegal alien!

[Manticore]

I (sort of) agree with you: I think it's possible to get too hung up about political correctness.

But I like some of the "sudden ethnic replacements".

I've never cared about Ray Palmer. To me, "the Atom" was always just another boring, samey hero with little to make him stand out from the crowd. But then he died and DC replaced him with Ryan Choi as the new Atom.

Someone recommended the new series to me. I was sceptical at first, but I picked it up and I really enjoyed it. I thought Ryan Choi was a likeable character and the series was a good read. That has nothing to do with the fact that Ryan Choi was Asian American and everything to do with the quality of the writing.

And then DC had him killed. Bastards! I hate that.

Similarly, I quite liked Ted Kord but I really think I prefer Jaime Reyes as the Blue Beetle.

Jaime Reyes is one of the best new superheroes in recent years and his series was really very good. Again, nothing to do with his ethnicity and everything to do with awesome writing and great character development.

You'd better not kill him, DC...

[WildKnight]

I don't know if Ted Kord was "disappeared" solely for the purpose of bringing in Jaime Reyes (who I, too, really like), but Ray Palmer was being retired. The fact that his replacement is Asian was just an editorial decision. The original character wasn't removed just to make way for someone "ethnic." That I don't mind so much (though I'm ALWAYS skeptical about deaths in comic books, as they rarely last unless the character happens to be third tier). DC in particular seems to love to bounce back and forth between its Silver and Bronze Age characters, with modern "interim" versions of the heroes appearing and disappearing like shooting stars.

I'm not saying that a replacement (race irrelevant) character can never be good, but I do find it irritating when they kill a character solely to replace them with someone "of color"

[takewithfood]

Just to clarify, I'm adamant that changing Peter Parker's ethnicity from white to any other ethnicity is, indeed, a change. I strongly disagree with the author of the article slim posted, that Peter's white ethnicity is meaningless and default, and that making him black doesn't change anything. It is absolutely a change.

But don't confuse that with me actually caring that much if they actually make the change. I think its unnecessary and frankly a little racist, but I could deal with it. If that's the story they want to portray, that's fine. It's a story and it'll probably still be a great one - but it won't be the Peter Parker I'm used to, and I don't see why it's better than the Peter Parker I'm used to.

~TWF

[WildKnight]

Thats cool. Frankly I'm just shocked that you see how its racist in the first place.

[slimgoodbody]

I'm not saying they have to change it, just that Glover should get to audition, because I think he'd do well and the only thing "not Spidey" about him is skin color. To me, Spidey's skin color simply does not come into play when I think about what makes him who he is, so if they can tell the same good story with a well cast actor and the only thing they have to change is the color of his skin, I'm fine with that.

[WildKnight]

Sorry, but its utterly naive to say that you can change someone's skin color without changing the character of the... character.

[slimgoodbody]

Sometimes, yes. But Spidey's whiteness has nothing to do with his character. If a blind person were read a Luke Cage or a Black Panther story, they'd say "So yeah, this character's black, then, right?" If a blind person were read a Spidey story, there is no way they could guess his race. It's a non-factor. I don't think the experiences of a white nerd growing up in Queens is all that fundamentally different from a black nerd growing up in Queens. Really, it's pretty statistically astronomical that Peter knows 99% white people. It's Queens, New York, for crying out loud.

[WildKnight]

What??? There is no difference between growing up a white nerd and growing up a black nerd??? On what planet is that statement true? Growing up a black ANYTHING is fundamentally different than growing up white, in Queens New York or Juno Alaska.

Also, I'd like to point out that when Spider-Man "grew up" in Queens, it was the late 1960's. Primarily white, at that time. In the years since, they have added considerable numbers of minority characters to Spidey's extended cast, but they can't change the fact that when he was a kid in the comics, his supporting cast were a bunch of white kids.

[Presto]

If a blind person were to read Luke Cage, Dare Devil, or Spider-Man, he would go. "Who are you? And why are you handing me a magazine? You some kind of wise-cracker? Think it's funny? Make I should whoop you're butt off and give you a nice cushy chair you can't sit on, how about that?"

Sorry.. XD You make a good point, but I just had to make that comment.

[toast]

Jun 4, 2010 15:49:37 GMT -5 Presto said:

If a blind person were to read Luke Cage, Dare Devil, or Spider-Man, he would go. "Who are you? And why are you handing me a magazine? You some kind of wise-cracker? Think it's funny? Make I should whoop you're butt off and give you a nice cushy chair you can't sit on, how about that?"

Sorry.. XD You make a good point, but I just had to make that comment.

Isn't Daredevil, like, the #1 comic book for blind readers? ;D I swear I heard that before somewhere.

[WildKnight]

At least blind people who enjoy Daredevil would be spared the horror of some of his previous costumes... (as an Iron Fist fan, I often wish I didn't have to look at the crap he wears)