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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2010 18:58:05 GMT -5
If they make MJ not a ginger, I'm crying melanin prejudice!
But seriously... If they made, say, "Ultimate Spider-Man" black... I wouldn't care. The point of things like the Ultimate lines is to explore different takes on characters (and often place older stories in a more modern context).
But the point of a Spider-Man movie shouldn't be, IMO, a social experiment. It should be something I can sit down and eat popcorn and enjoy.
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Post by Ziegander on Jun 4, 2010 18:59:30 GMT -5
Peter Parker was created white for a reason too So maybe you know what that reason is then, because I've gotta know. EDIT: Also, at the risk of sounding like some kind of flower-child with his head in the clouds, I'm a bit troubled by everyone insisting on, "well, if they DO make Spidey black, they'll have to black up the character a couple notches too." I know that's a bit of a summarized and irreverent way to put the comments that have been made.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2010 19:04:50 GMT -5
*shrugs* Again, call me racist, whatever. I'm from Detroit. I went to school with black and hispanic kids every day.
Black is different than white. Hispanic is different than white. It just is.
And yes, I do know why Peter Parker is white. He was meant to be a stand-in for Stan Lee's young self. It's not as if Stan was just some assumptive racist who only created white heroes. He created the Black Panther, along with dozens of other black characters.
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Post by Ziegander on Jun 4, 2010 19:13:34 GMT -5
And yes, I do know why Peter Parker is white. He was meant to be a stand-in for Stan Lee's young self. It's not as if Stan was just some assumptive racist who only created white heroes. He created the Black Panther, along with dozens of other black characters. Well, see that I can totally get behind then. That's something pretty substantive, I had just never heard that before. Though, I do agree with the point being made that it doesn't have to change the character of Parker to simply make him black. I am insulted by the idea that it must, frankly. The thing is, I would say that sometimes being black is different from being white, but sometimes it's not. It depends on where you grow up. If you grow up in a mostly white, but informed and tolerant community, and are a minority you might not get treated any differently than anyone else. Most of the common and negative stereotypes for minorities fall on white people in such a community anyway.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2010 19:31:28 GMT -5
I wish I could believe that were true, but its simply not. People from different cultures are different. I come from a German/Irish background, and am consistently surprised at how different my wife's (Polish) family is.
Even if we place our black Peter Parker in the same white community that standard Parker grew up in... now he's got issues of isolation and belonging (even if the people around him aren't racist... and its absolutely insane to assume he'd never encounter racism... he's the only black kid in his his family. Unless he's an idiot and completely lacking in self-awareness, its going to alter his character).
And for the record, racism comes from all people, not just from whites.
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Post by Ziegander on Jun 4, 2010 19:38:26 GMT -5
I wish I could believe that were true, but its simply not. Eh, I don't want to bog this down with a point of contention it seems that you and TWF often have, but I would just say that it CAN be true, but I certainly concede that at least 95% of the time it isn't. In earnest here, I thought he already had these issues. As far as the bit about him being the only black kid in his family, okay, sure, you'd want to retcon at least one of his parents as having been black just so it is genetically plausible that he's black, but then when you do that he doesn't have the "I'm the only black kid in my family" angst problem. Oh, I know that, I was just giving an example to go against the common argument. Of course racism comes from all people.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2010 19:45:09 GMT -5
Black Peter Parker doesn't have to have a black parent. I mean, his genetic parents obviously. But he can be adopted, etc.
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Post by Ziegander on Jun 4, 2010 19:50:59 GMT -5
Well, but if Black Parker were adopted that brings about a bigger change to his character than if Richard or Mary Parker (or both) were black. At least in my opinion.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2010 20:03:02 GMT -5
I agree. I just think that any of these things would bring about some kind of fundamental change. At any rate, I really think this argument is a sideline, that doesn't change my fundamental point.
Basically, if I'm going to pay to go see a movie, I want it to be about the familiar characters that I know and love. I don't want a black Spider-Man for the same reason I dislike basic changes to the canon in regards to things that have nothing whatsoever to do with race.
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Post by Ziegander on Jun 4, 2010 20:10:01 GMT -5
No, I know that's your fundamental argument, and it's not one that really anyone can argue with. I don't mind those sorts of basic changes as long as the story is still well done. That's just personal preference, there, nothing to argue about. I just wanted to bring up, not particularly against you, that I simply don't agree that a black Peter Parker needs to be written as a black Peter Parker.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2010 20:13:56 GMT -5
If by that, you mean that he doesn't have to be "urban" I totally agree. I'm just concerned that he would be written that way.
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Kanzu
New Mutant
2Fast
Posts: 63
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Post by Kanzu on Jun 6, 2010 9:33:23 GMT -5
What??? There is no difference between growing up a white nerd and growing up a black nerd??? On what planet is that statement true? Growing up a black ANYTHING is fundamentally different than growing up white, in Queens New York or Juno Alaska. Not at all. Growing up a black nerd is the same thing as growing up a white nerd. Just you're skin color is different.
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Post by Brainstem on Jun 6, 2010 12:55:04 GMT -5
I disagree with that; there are certain standards that different cultures hold their people to. While I can never say that I know what it's like to be a black nerd, I do know that there are different pressures applied from different groups of people.
As a few people have said, it's important to know that being a part of a different race is different than others. Each race has its own culture so yes, biologically we're all basically the same, but this is just a strong case of nature vs. nurture in which nurture wins.
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Post by Ziegander on Jun 6, 2010 13:53:39 GMT -5
How wrong can this be? Black is not a race, nor is white. Further, there isn't simply one culture given to each race. To imply that all black people are the same race and share the same culture is unbelievably ignorant.
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Post by Brainstem on Jun 6, 2010 13:59:06 GMT -5
Never said each race had a single culture! The only thing I said is that American culture perceives certain images of people in different races (and you very well know that race is a term broadly used to describe skin color). While we're all on the same plane biologically, the cultural bias still makes life different for any different kind of person. Being an Asian nerd is different than being a White nerd is different than being a Black nerd is different than being a Hispanic nerd.
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