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Post by terrorscarecrow on Jun 24, 2010 9:48:28 GMT -5
First the movies are an "alternate reality" scenario. I figured that one out when he didn't need web shooters. Just because there is little change doesn't mean it isn't alternate reality. Second, I'm not saying Bruce Lee wasn't an excellent Martial Artist, it's just that I get tired of people saying that he's the greatest who ever was, when I know of people (who are still alive) who are superior Martial Artists, or at bare minimum take their skill far more seriously. Just because nobody who challenged him could defeat him doesn't mean nobody could defeat him. I'm pretty sure he didn't walk into any Shaolin Temples and beat up all the monks inside, did he? It's a case of he's far more popular than people like the Five Deadly Venoms, so people only know of him. I'd like to know if you know who the Five Deadly Venoms are?
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 24, 2010 9:57:12 GMT -5
I have no idea who they are... but you clearly have no idea who Bruce Lee is, since you question how seriously he took his martial arts training. The man didn't revolutionize martial arts because he was a movie star. he revolutionized martial arts because he lived and breathed kung fu.
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Post by terrorscarecrow on Jun 24, 2010 10:09:53 GMT -5
How did he revolutionize Martial Arts? Short of bringing it to the attention of the West through his movies, he didn't seem to revolutionize the whole of Martial Arts any more than any other man who adds something small. And I do not question how seriously he took his martial arts training, but how seriously he used it. It seems like he showed off his skill, made movies, and taught people. Most Martial Artists are unknown because they dedicate their entire lives to learning and improving the art.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 24, 2010 10:27:21 GMT -5
*blinks* how... did... Bruce Lee revolutionize... ARE YOU SERIOUS?
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Post by terrorscarecrow on Jun 24, 2010 10:29:55 GMT -5
Yes I am. I'd like to know what exactly he did that changed the entire style of Martial Arts so much that apparently God wishes he was that cool. (okay that's an exaggeration)
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 24, 2010 10:42:13 GMT -5
Wow. Mindblowing.
Okay, so here's the thing. Before Bruce Lee, Kung Fu was taught only to Chinese, and it was very stagnant and formal. Bruce Lee, literally, fought for his right to teach non-Chinese students. Furthermore, the style that he developed, Jeet Kun Do, was such a departure from traditional martial arts that to this day masters of other styles are trying to adapt Lee's techniques to their own skills. Bruce Lee's ideas on diet and exercise are still being followed by competitive fighters all over the world.
It seems like you're under the impression that Bruce Lee was just some movie star. You couldn't be more wrong. Bruce Lee grew up fighting on the streets of Hong Kong, which was the birth place of his pragmatic philosophy and dislike of traditional Kung Fu's insistence on wasted movements and pre-set stances. Bruce Lee was a Master Martial Artist in every sense. He spent every moment of his life trying to perfect himself. He was challenged at every turn by the traditional power structure and, yes, he DID fight shaolin monks, as well as practitioners of dozens of other arts, to prove the superiority of JKD.
And, despite your brush off... the fact that he traveled around the world asking anyone who wanted to prove him wrong to step up and do something about it, and was never once defeated, says a lot about his skills. We're not talking about nobody schlubs here. Bruce Lee fought the very best the world had to offer.
Are you aware of the fact that Bruce Lee fought the very best Kung Fu artist the traditional Chinese masters in San Francisco could find, and defeated him handily?
You should really educate yourself on the man before you try to run him into the ground. I'd bet good money he could take down any of these so-called "MMA" stars you're drooling over.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 24, 2010 10:45:47 GMT -5
Also... I just looked up the "Five Deadly Venoms", and... FOFL.
Seriously? You expect me to take these clowns as legitimate contenders to Bruce Lee???
First of all, The Five Deadly Venoms was a MOVIE they were in. The group itself was known as the Venom Mob. Second of all, they were all trained in the Peking Opera School in Taiwan. That means that they were MOVIE martial artists... extremely skilled acrobats, to be sure, but by no means to be taken seriously as combat artists.
I'm guessing you "know" of them through their reference in World of Warcraft, since you don't seem to actually know anything about their real existences.
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Post by terrorscarecrow on Jun 24, 2010 10:58:04 GMT -5
MMA sucks... okay lets get that straight... And we're also both getting this stuff from Wikipedia (I'm trying to find where it sys that no non-Chinese were taught Martial Arts, even though they had Martial Arts in many Asian countries long before Bruce Lee, in like the year 500 or so...[for example, Ninjitsu]) Just because it wasn't common for others to learn Martial Arts doesn't mean that nobody can. Non-Asians have been able to learn Martial Arts for a while, it was just rare because few people even knew it existed. While Bruce Lee's view on diet and openness may be popular, I'm sure that they're not regarded as the be all and end all to what you can accomplish with Martial Arts. Also the "straight and formal" is an exaggeration on your part. Martial Arts was open, maybe not on the level of Bruce Lee's style, but it was by no means a "go left, punch down, jump, kick right" kind of rigidness. Many students of Martial Arts that lived in the cities were very open about their style, as the only way complete closed fighting would work, was in training. Finally, how can you prove beyond doubt that he fought "the best the world had to offer"? Not everyone is completely open about their skills. They may be the most renowned, but that does not qualify them as the best. And yet again MMA sucks.
At this point I'm pretty willing to say that we're both going to the extremes about this (which makes me think Bruce Lee fan) and neither one of us will ever convince the other.
EDIT: I don't even own World of Warcraft. And they are commonly referred to as the five deadly venoms as that was there most influential movie. Finally they actually know Martial Arts. Just because they were in the Opera doesn't mean that they weren't skilled Martial Artists. They may not have been able to beat Bruce Lee, but I bet they could beat the living crap out of most people.
Also I know of them because my friend is obsessed with them. And owns about oh... 20 or so of their movies. And actually knows a lot more about them than the Wikipedia article.
Final edit. Wikipedia actually has more than five words about Lo Mang so look at his article.
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Post by Super Ryan on Jul 14, 2010 6:10:39 GMT -5
The first I ever heard of Bruce lee doing all that great stuff was in the movie they made about him. Dragon the bruce Lee Story.
From all the articles I read I heard he was a dick and arrogant as hell. Also chuck noriss had been a full contact fighter before Bruce Lee had his first american screening.
Mabie alot of the hype and such is died young facter. When a celebrity passes before there fifteen minutes is up. People tend to alwase want more and romantisize there memory.
Examples. River Pheonix, Marolyn Monroe, and the the guy from rebel without a couse whos name excapes me at the moment.
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Post by l3eta-00a1x on Jul 14, 2010 6:58:03 GMT -5
I would't try to stir that argument back up. I don't think it would end pretty. EDIT: 5peed0f5hadows gone, so stir it up as much as you want!
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Post by WildKnight on Jul 14, 2010 7:30:24 GMT -5
From all the articles I read I heard he was a dick and arrogant as hell. Also chuck noriss had been a full contact fighter before Bruce Lee had his first american screening. Bruce Lee was arrogant, although I think to call him a dick is way out line. The guy spent a goodly portion of his time and money helping the less fortunate. As far as Chuck Norris... yeah, and? The two fought. Lee won. Decisively. I don't understand why people are having such a hard time getting this; the guy didn't just TALK about being a great fighter. He proved it. Time and again. Bruce Lee was NOT hype. Bruce Lee was the real deal. I'm sorry if he wasn't some ancient monk up on a mountain, fulfilling some ridiculous notion that a great Kung Fu Master should be quiet and humble, but the facts are the facts. Bruce Lee traveled the world challenging everyone who dared. And he won. Every time.
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Post by l3eta-00a1x on Jul 14, 2010 7:41:44 GMT -5
I warned you... After you posted, but still. Now you two kiddies can get at it. (My opinion was that Bruce Lee was a guy who did Martial Arts, he has not affected my daily life, so I don't care how good his Kung-Fu was) (Don't kill me for saying that)
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Post by WildKnight on Jul 14, 2010 9:37:45 GMT -5
I'm not offended by that at all. There's nothing wrong with simply not caring. You could tell me that <insert name of real soccer player here> was the greatest soccer player of all time, and I'd answer exactly what you did. "Thats great, but it doesn't mean anything to me."
However, arguing that Bruce Lee wasn't genuinely a great martial artist? Thats just ignorant.
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Post by Brainstem on Jul 14, 2010 11:35:29 GMT -5
People just get all whiney because people are arrogant. In a field like martial arts, you need some arrogance. Bring that into the ring and you've got a psychological edge on the competition; if you never appear to be worried about anything, then the opponent will think they aren't able to phase you.
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Post by kito on Nov 24, 2010 0:03:50 GMT -5
you left out the part where lee was actualy disabled from the waste down for almost 6 months befor he got feeling back to his body and evetualy started to walk again.
ps. the black kingpin was ok but needed to be "bigger" in my mind he was bulky but 1 was not big enouf 2 king pin doesent simply fight 1v1 for no reasion if he thinkd your on your way there to kill him.
u think that the black guy from the longest yard or that bigger guy from that movi could have been a much better king pin they where huge.
or even some no name Jiant body builder it worked for Arnold
i dont think i would like a black peater but i dont rilly know till i see. i thout i would hate the fresh prince of belair but i fond that to be a good show if i hade a half hour to kill.
i dont mind them casting different races then the carerictor in the comic as long as they are right for the part. i dont uder stand y they changed actors between ironman but i still liked boath movies. idk y they are changing the actor who plaed baner in hulk 1 to a new guy ib hulk 2 but ill go wach it nun the less to see if i like it. i rilly dont care on the backround story for th hero in the movies shure this "black spiderman" would not be the same as the comic 1 i read but its not the comic. as long as they dont change it in the comic idc at all.
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