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Post by takewithfood on Aug 7, 2010 22:26:44 GMT -5
ZeiganderThe background is great! I like it. ^__^ However, we have some math problems here. I think I'm going to write up a Transform Self character step-by-step so that people can get a handle on how it works. I know it's tricky and takes some getting used to. Also, please include some numbers with your Challenges, so that I know how much they're worth. There's a difference between Conflicting Interests 1 and Conflicting interests 3, for example. And I'm still not sure how teaching some kids on the reservation earns him Wealth 3. Again, you don't need that much wealth; even at Wealth 1 you can afford a bike and some armor, if you've saved up for them. Meanwhile, on to specific questions: If you want to use your Ability bonus and a weapon bonus at the same time, then yes, you have to buy the "ability bonus AND weapon modifier" option. It is not very advantageous unless you have a kickass weapon. This doesn't make regular weapons useless, though. They're still useful when you aren't putting many stones in your box. For example, let's say there's a guy with Strength 4 and Close Combat 6, and he has a baseball bat with the +1 damage advantage. If he wants to make a big attack, he can put up to 10 stones into Close Combat - but if he does that, he can't benefit from his weapon. However, if he only wants to put 6 stones in his box (let's say that's all the energy he has, or wants to spend), he can use his weapon, too. He might as well, since +1 damage is better than nothing. So, yeah, in this case, I wouldn't bother with the extra weapon bonus. It isn't worth +3 CL unless you have a rockin' weapon or Psi Weapon or something. I have no idea what you're talking about here. lol Those are both Actions. One is Close Combat, which is an Action, and the other is Unstoppable, which is an Action. I am confused. Also, you'll need to pick a condition in which the modifier applies to Unstoppable, or it'll cost 1 CL more. You have a good condition for Close Combat (that it only works when he's using his tomahawks), but we need to think of a condition for Unstoppable. Maybe only when he's flying at max speed, or when he isn't carrying someone or something? Anyway, I'll get back to you with a sample of how the Transform Self works. ~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Aug 7, 2010 22:40:05 GMT -5
Black Sam:Great background idea! It's nice to have an alien in the game. How old is he now, though, out of curiosity? And he clearly retained all his memories, right? Does his mother know he's an alien? I'm a little iffy about all those regular actions getting crammed into the Mastery, but it's worth testing. ^__^ I'm sorta not sure where you're going to spend your LoEs, either.. What happened to the psi weapon deal? You have the disadvantage for Toughness about the radiant armor.. but I don't see anything else about radiant armor. Also, you're missing challenges entirely, but I get that it's preliminary. ^__^ Keep workin', it's a great start! ~TWF
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Post by Ziegander on Aug 7, 2010 22:41:17 GMT -5
The background is great! I like it. ^__^ Thanks! I quite like it myself. ;D After I posted that I noticed that my math was off. I had forgotten to account for his Social Skills and his Vehicle Operations. But with the stones I'll save by changing his Close Combat around I think it should work. I didn't do this, because I'm not sure how much they really ought to be worth. Honestly I was thinking that each feels like a 2 stone challenge to me, but some of that (the deadly enemies particularly) seems like you should have a say in. Yeah, I know. He needs to have a day job in the city too, I just haven't decided what it is yet. Bah! Ah... okay, gotcha. Well, no attacking with his Tomahawks is just one use of his Close Combat action, and represents just 1 out of his 4 specialties with the action. Unstoppable is simply an option of his Flight. I was under the impression that for +1 cost level you could apply Generic Modifier to two whole Actions, such as Close Combat and Flight, which I don't want to do. Oooohh... I get it now. I remember reading something about "specific circumstances" or something like that in Generic Modifier, but I noticed in the rules that's never mentioned. You should definitely make that clearer in the actual rules text for Generic Modifier that each application of the modifier must apply to a narrow selected usage of the chosen Actions.
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Post by Black Sam on Aug 7, 2010 22:54:00 GMT -5
Black Sam:Great background idea! It's nice to have an alien in the game. How old is he now, though, out of curiosity? And he clearly retained all his memories, right? Does his mother know he's an alien? I'm a little iffy about all those regular actions getting crammed into the Mastery, but it's worth testing. ^__^ I'm sorta not sure where you're going to spend your LoEs, either.. What happened to the psi weapon deal? You have the disadvantage for Toughness about the radiant armor.. but I don't see anything else about radiant armor. Also, you're missing challenges entirely, but I get that it's preliminary. ^__^ Keep workin', it's a great start! ~TWF Yeah, I thought an alien would round out the group nicely! Actually, I plan to make him a teenager. Part of the reason for the Radiant Armor is to disguise him some (and humans are squishy). I'm explaining things wrong by not writing down everything in my head, but it'll be late tonight or sometime tomorrow before I have time to organize my thoughts adequately. But to answer your questions, when he became a human, he only retained a vague remembrance of his previous life, reflected by a sort of "ET Trivia" Gen Knowledge specialty. He sort of knows who he was and why he's here, but experiencing life as we do has changed him profoundly -- he's essentially just an enthusiastic, slightly spastic teenager full of passion for humanity in general, and Liberation in particular. I'll try and separate the actions out a bit. On my first draft of the CAD they were separate, but I ran out of space! He was more of an "instant inventor" in that draft, wielding laser tag-ish guns (he's into video games!), etc, but I thought I'd be infringing on our inventor, so I moved away from that. I thought I was buying the Toughness as the Radiant Armor...sort of a more expensive (and useful) version of Hensin. Thoughts?
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Post by takewithfood on Aug 7, 2010 22:56:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip, I'll try to clear up the part about conditions. I thought the example made it pretty clear, but some stronger wording could help. ^__^
The thing with Unstoppable being the condition for flight is that your flight will always be unstoppable. So that really doesn't narrow down the use.
The point of requiring a condition for generic modifiers is that it gets really, really boring when you always get bonus stones. It also doesn't make sense in some situations: Wolverine's claws don't help him when he's trying to knock someone out without hurting them, or when he's trying to trip someone, etc. They only help in some circumstances, and so he shouldn't have to pay as much as someone who is awesome at combat all the time for some misc. reason.
EDIT: This is an idea I sorta pinched from dk. ^__^
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Aug 7, 2010 22:58:14 GMT -5
Sam: Ah, I didn't know what the radiant armor meant. A common thing people do is apply the "takes time to prepare" disadvantage for -1 CL, and say that it takes an action to activate your toughness. Doesn't cost any stones, you just use one of your actions in the panel, and poof, toughness. Not a bad idea for a guy who has one big fat Action anyway. ^__^
I'm okay with the armor essentially being his costume. That works for me.
~TWF
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Post by Ziegander on Aug 8, 2010 0:08:42 GMT -5
Okay, so now for the mystical Ghost Rider type... *rubs hands together* Her name is Paladin.
To start things off, our girl has some solid Close Combat (AN 4 or 5), which he often uses to pull of his Harmful Touch (Paralyzing, Lethal, Requires skin-to-skin contact). She can also use his touch to subvert the will of his foes (Telepathy with Control Others, but also requires a touch attack). She has a Generic Modifier which adds to Close Combat (when making touch attacks or grabs), Harmful Touch (Lethal option only), and Telepathy (Control Others only). Let's call it Divine Punishment. Further, she is able to wreath herself in golden light using her Immolation modifier. She is able to turn it off and on, and her Harmful Touch and Telepathy actions are linked to it, only being effective if Immolation is turned on. Perhaps anytime she attacks a foe with Harmful Touch or Telepathy it turns Immolation off automatically (representing her channeling the raw divine power into a focused attack) for 1 panel? Her Luck modifier, renamed Righteous Indignation, provides her bonus stones in specific situations, always when she is angered by obstacles in her path to Justice. Finally, she has the Power Up modifier, which triggers when she is enraged. Can Power Up grant actions/modifiers that a character doesn't otherwise have? It would be cool if her Immolation was tied to Power Up, growing more potent as she gets more pissed off, and I'd like it if she could gain Flight through Power Up (possibly among other things).
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Post by takewithfood on Aug 8, 2010 0:11:47 GMT -5
So, let's build a Transform Self character.
The first thing I need is a concept. I decide to go with a guy who was infected/possessed by a creepy alien entity. It's a creature of pure darkness, which he encountered in outer space - let's make him an astronaut. ^__^ It is not exactly evil, so much as it lacks a human conscience. It is weakened by bright light, but feeds off darkness - and that includes dark emotions. Some ancient alien people rid themselves of it by casting it into a distant star - our sun. Our hero accidentally woke it while on a space program mission studying solar flares, and brough it home.
Anyway, that's the idea. Our hero - let's call him Alex - and his parasite - let's call it "Shade" - can communicate empathically, and Alex can gain tremendous power by letting Shade come to the surface. In this alternate form he is stronger, tougher, and much faster, but Shade is largely in control.
Step 1 Alright. I have 40+10 stones to spend. First, I start by choosing the details of Alex's transformation. Alex is the default form, and Shade is the alternate form. That's only two CADs, so there is no cost here. If I wanted a third CAD it would cost 3 white.
Step 2[/u] I decide that Alex's transformation trigger is when he's consumed by dark, negative emotions, such as depression, envy, hatred, and so on. Getting angry because some guy cuts him off in traffic isn't enough to trigger the transformation, but if he ever catches his wife in bed with another man or finds out he's been laid off, Shade will probably take over. Shade remains in control for as long as he feels like it, or if someone can make Alex's negative feelings go away (talking him through it with social skills or psychiatry, for example). Shade will probably let go of control if he is in pain or exposed to a lot of light.
I decide to add a Voluntary Transformation for 3 white: Alex can deliberately hand over the reigns when he needs to.
Step 3 I figure transforming over a full Page is too slow, so I pay another 3 white to make it just one action. Alex's CAD will probably be kinda weak, so being able to transform in a hurry might count for a lot.
Step 4 Okay, time to buy some common abilities. Alex will be weaker or on par with Shade in most areas, so most of the lowest common denominators will be his stats. However, I want Shade to be a little dumber, less educated, and a lot less social than Alex, so those stats will start at his level.
I start assigning stats and this is what I get with (I'll fill in specialties and stuff later):
Int 2 Str 2 Agi 2 Spd 2 Dur 2 Rec 2 Pool 2
Combat, Close 2 Social Skills 2
Wealth 3
This costs a total of 7 white, which isn't much. I can also pick some Challenges that apply to both CADs. The only one I come up with is Conflicting Interests 3, since Alex and Shade have different goals: Alex wants to use his power to help people, while Shade is more interested in causing trouble, having fun, getting in fights, and generally causing people to feel crappy because he is, as Alex puts it, a "jerk elemental".
Step 5 So, I spent 6 stones on the transformation details, and 7 white on the CADs so far; minus 3 stones for Challenges and I've spent 10 white. That leaves me with 30 white stones left over. 30x1.5 is 45 white. That's a lot!
Step 6 Now I get to spend those 45 white improving the two CADs individually. I can also choose up to 7 stones of additional challenges.
I start with Alex's CAD first. He is a retired astronaut and scientist, so he has to be pretty smart and very well educated; he is also much more socially adept than Shade and has a few common human skills. I up his Intelligence to 6, improve his Social Skills to 4, give him General Knowledge 5, Technology 5, and Vehicle Operations 4. Adding up these costs, I've just spent 16 white. I decide not to give Alex any additional Challenges.
Now, on to Shade's CAD. I have 29 white left, plus 7 stones of Challenges. I start with the Challenges: Shade is a big, nasty, demonic being with long spindly arms that end in huge, clawed hands, and he has a wide, flat head like a frog's, only his mouth is lined with teeth and he has ears that fold back against his head like horns. I say that's worth 4 stones of Looking Non-Human. He also has an elemental weakness to light-based attacks: for 3 white stones these attacks cause x2 damage (this includes a lot of laser weapons, which are fairly common) and in general he is very uncomfortable in bright light.
So, now Challenges are out of the way. I have 36 stones in total to work with. I decide to up his Strength to 5, Agility to 6, Speed to 5, Durability to 5, and Pool and Recovery to 5 each. This costs 15 white, ouch. I also up his Close Combat to 4 and give him Acrobatics 2; that's 16 white, now. I toss in Wall-Crawling 4, and Teleportation 3 with a -1 CL disadvantage such that he can only teleport from one area of deep shadow to another, and Special Training 3 with some sneaky specialities because Shade is a sneaky guy.. alien.. thing; those each cost 2 white, so I have now spent 22.
Time for Modifiers. I start with 2 stones of Enhanced Vision, allowing him to see perfectly well - in fact better - in the dark. I also give him Toughness 4 for 6 white, since he's a tough little nasty. Lastly, a generic modifier that I name "Blindsiding" which applies to Close Combat under the condition that Shade is attacking with surprise, or when his opponent can't properly see him. Jerk elemental indeed. My last 6 white stones buys me MN 3.
Finished. So, in the end, this is what my CADs look like:
Name: Dr. Alexander Bright / Shade Age: 55 / unknown Height: 5'11" / 6'9" (commonly slouches to 6') Weight: 177 / 150 Hair: salt-and-pepper / none Eyes: brown / the definition of black
Abilities Int 6/2 Str 2/5 Agi 2/6 Spd 2/5 Dur 2/5 Rec 2/5 Pool 2/5
Actions Acrobatics 0/2 [strength bonus]
Combat, Close 2/5 [agility bonus] - specialties..
General Knowledge 5/0 [intelligence bonus] - specialties..
Skulking (Special Training) 0/3 - specialties..
Social Skills 4/2 - specialties
Technology 5/0 [intelligence bonus]
Teleportation 0/3 - only from darkness to darkness
Vehicle Operations 4/0 - specialties..
Wall-Crawling 0/4 [agility bonus]
Modifiers Blindsiding 3 - modifies Close Combat - condition: when attacking with surprise, or when opponent can't clearly see Shade
Enhanced Vision 6 - see in darkness
Toughness 4
Wealth 3
Challenges Conflicting Interests 3 - Alex and Shade have very different motivations and tend not to get along Looking Non-Human 4 - Shade is a big, nasty, demonic being with long spindly arms that end in huge, clawed hands, and he has a wide, flat head like a frog's, only his mouth is lined with teeth and he has ears that fold back against his head like horns. Elemental Vulnerability 3 - Light-based attacks (including laser weapons) deal x2 damage.
DONE!
~TWF
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Post by Black Sam on Aug 8, 2010 0:50:23 GMT -5
And another question...
I'm looking at separating (again) Invisibility from his Mastery. I don't read anything in the power description about using it on others or over an area. The iconic example of the power -- The Invisible Woman -- however, obviously has this ability. What's your take on it? Buying the "Area Effect" Advantage is prohibitively expensive.
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Post by Ziegander on Aug 8, 2010 1:05:21 GMT -5
Okay, that walkthrough was very helpful. I'll PM you my new, finalized CAD in just a second. I think I've got it this time around... lol
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Post by takewithfood on Aug 8, 2010 1:07:24 GMT -5
Okay, so now for the mystical Ghost Rider type... *rubs hands together* Her name is Paladin. To start things off, our girl has some solid Close Combat (AN 4 or 5), which he often uses to pull of his Harmful Touch (Paralyzing, Lethal, Requires skin-to-skin contact). She can also use his touch to subvert the will of his foes (Telepathy with Control Others, but also requires a touch attack). She has a Generic Modifier which adds to Close Combat (when making touch attacks or grabs), Harmful Touch (Lethal option only), and Telepathy (Control Others only). Let's call it Divine Punishment. Further, she is able to wreath herself in golden light using her Immolation modifier. She is able to turn it off and on, and her Harmful Touch and Telepathy actions are linked to it, only being effective if Immolation is turned on. Perhaps anytime she attacks a foe with Harmful Touch or Telepathy it turns Immolation off automatically (representing her channeling the raw divine power into a focused attack) for 1 panel? Her Luck modifier, renamed Righteous Indignation, provides her bonus stones in specific situations, always when she is angered by obstacles in her path to Justice. Finally, she has the Power Up modifier, which triggers when she is enraged. Can Power Up grant actions/modifiers that a character doesn't otherwise have? It would be cool if her Immolation was tied to Power Up, growing more potent as she gets more pissed off, and I'd like it if she could gain Flight through Power Up (possibly among other things). Woah, that is a lot of powers. My brain is full just reading that. lol I like the idea of her Immolation getting stronger as she gets angrier. You should probably start with some Immolation, though, or it'll take a long time before it actually gets dangerous. Or, I suppose, you could buy Power Up so that it boosts the MN quickly (2+ points per page), but it makes sense to me that she would have enough "grr!" in her at all times to at least be able to turn some of it on. The part about the different touch powers only working when immolation is on, and then shutting immolation off is a bit confusing, but it could work. The Generic Modifier is a problem. In general it's not good to have a modifier that affects almost everything you do. Firstly, it's kinda boring; second of all, you can only apply the same Modifier once per page. So, if you have a +3 modifier, you can only gain 3 stones per page from it. You can divide those 3 stones between the actions it modifies, but that's it. So, having the modifier affect both touch attacks and harmful touch or telepathy wouldn't be optimal. You'd have to split the modifier between two of those actions. Is there a reason behind this strange set of powers? ^__^ ~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Aug 8, 2010 1:11:07 GMT -5
And another question... I'm looking at separating (again) Invisibility from his Mastery. I don't read anything in the power description about using it on others or over an area. The iconic example of the power -- The Invisible Woman -- however, obviously has this ability. What's your take on it? Buying the "Area Effect" Advantage is prohibitively expensive. Yeah, Invisibility is just for you. Sue bought the "others benefit from power" advantage for +3 CL. Invisibility is one of the best actions for that sort of thing, though. Growth is another terrifying one. (What's scarier than a pissed off Hulk? A 200 foot tall pissed off Hulk, for starters.) You don't have to split those actions off your Mastery, though. It's fine for testing purposes. One of the problems with having tons of actions piled into a mastery is that you can effectively level them all up at the same time by leveling up your Mastery - but this isn't a problem for Light, since he has "can't improve by lines". So it should work out, really. ~TWF
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Post by Ziegander on Aug 8, 2010 1:14:47 GMT -5
I like the idea of her Immolation getting stronger as she gets angrier. You should probably start with some Immolation, though, or it'll take a long time before it actually gets dangerous. Or, I suppose, you could buy Power Up so that it boosts the MN quickly (2+ points per page), but it makes sense to me that she would have enough "grr!" in her at all times to at least be able to turn some of it on. Yep. I agree. Immolation at 4 or 5 before Power Up starts going was what I was initially thinking. Yeah, I was sort of brainstorming out loud, and it pretty much turned into thoughtvomit. Whoops, lol! Right, right. I'll put together the CAD without running Generic Modifier at all first and see how it looks/what it needs. Just me wanting to give myself a fun thought experiment of trying to combine as many different new rules together at once and still make a sound and coherent character.
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Post by takewithfood on Aug 8, 2010 1:16:01 GMT -5
Okay, that walkthrough was very helpful. I'll PM you my new, finalized CAD in just a second. I think I've got it this time around... lol Glad that was helpful! Damn, now I want to play that character.. Anyway, I have to hit the sac, but I'll take a look at the CAD tomorrow. Great work today, gang. ^__^ Can't wait to see what Goats is cooking up in his goat-brain. ~TWF
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Post by Ziegander on Aug 8, 2010 1:55:58 GMT -5
BASIC INFORMATIONPublic Name: Paladin Secret Identity: Gwenneth Walker Gender: Female Age: 23 Height: 125lbs Weight: 5'7" Eye Color: Blue Hair Color: Brown Skin Color: Fair Species: Posthuman Intelligence 3 (1w) Strength 5 (3w) Agility 2 (2r) Speed 2 (2r) Durability 4 (2w) Energy 5 (3w) Recovery 5 (3w) Health 4Energy Pool 25ACTIONSClose Combat 5 (3w) --Strength bonus or Weapon modifier, free Flight 1 (1w) Smite Evil 5 (9w) --As Harmful Touch --Paralyzing, +3 cost --Lethal, +2 cost --Requires Skin-to-skin Contact, -1 cost --Only Through Immolation, -1 cost Social Skills 5 (3w) Subvert the Wicked 5 (3w) --As Telepathy --Create Mental Links, +1 cost --Control Others, +2 cost --Range: Touch, -2 cost --Only Through Immolation, -1 cost MODIFIERSDivine Punishment +4 (3w) --As Immolation --Holy element --Can Turn Aura Off/On, +1 cost --Attacking with Harmful Touch or Telepathy automatically turns Off for 1 panel, -1 cost Righteous Indignation +4 (6w) --As Luck --12 "indignation stones" per issue --Good Luck Only, -1 cost Power Up +3 (4w) --Trigger: Rage --Increases Immolation --Additional Power (Flight), +2 cost Henshin (2r) EQUIPMENTCostume/Armor +0 (4w) --Nullifies 2x Damage, +1 cost --Material Class 2, +1 cost and 1 white Ancient Mace--Damage +1 CHALLENGESMore to come... BACKGROUNDGwen Walker is a violent woman, though it has been said that her violence is the good kind of violence. As a child she regularly got into fights with bullies, standing up not only for herself and her friends, but for the outcasts and those younger than her. As she grew older she was respected for her kindness and goodness, but feared for her swift and driven retribution. In college she chased and savagely beat a fellow student that tried to rape a friend of hers. After graduation she recently became a Preschool Teacher and fended off an attempted kidnapping, nearly killing the man. She has never been criminally charged. Her acts of violence have been seen by the community, and apparently the Divine as well, to be righteous. Granted immense power by a god-like entity, Gwenneth has been dubbed the Paladin and uses her golden power to strike down the wicked that plague Liberation City. More to come...
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