|
Post by ironfox on Dec 6, 2010 14:00:00 GMT -5
I've felt for a long time now that the close combat rules could use some sprucing up. I've tinkered with a new way to use ability bonuses to CC in my RL games and it's worked out well. It has even helped with that pesky energy problem with peak human (3 Dur) characters, but more importantly to me is that it makes CC with STR bonus and CC with AGI bonus very different from one another.
Each ability has a different function in combat. Strength is more brutal where agility is more graceful. Intelligence is more calculating while speed more impulsive.
The additions I've made are as follows:
Strength Bonus to Close Combat: You receive DOUBLE STR stones spent toward Attack in CC.
Agility: Receive DOUBLE AGI stones spent toward Defense in CC. Any situation that would negate Reflexive Dodge will negate this bonus.
Intelligence: Treat as Efficiency. Every 2 stones from INT spent in CC count for 3 slit between Attack and Defense as desired.
*Speed: Receive DOUBLE SPD stones spent in CC split between Attack and Defense as desired. Any stones in excess of success are wasted.
Durability: Receive DOUBLE DUR stones spent toward Defense in CC. Any situation that would negate Toughness will negate this bonus.
For these rule to work, CC and the Ability must be treated as separate and then stacked one on top of the other.
Example: You bought your CC with x2 damage and have a STR bonus to CC. You have a STR of 8 and a CC of 4. You want to make a 10 stone attack using 8 STR and 2 CC. The 8 STR are doubled for a whopping 16 stones AND THEN your 2 CC Stones are doubled to 4 CC for a total of 20 stones of attack. This is a tremendous amount of damage and in an unaltered game would be massively OP, but with the new AGI, SPD and DUR rules in play, so far as my games have shown, this isn't so overwhelming.
*The Speed bonus rule has been the most confusing for my RL players so I feel it need extra attention here. Example of Speed Defense: You have a Speed of 6 and a CC of 4. You want to avoid the Hulk's big ol' 14 stone thump (14 being 7 from STR doubled) so you place it all in Defense. Your 6 Doubled to 12 plus 4 from CC. Total Def 16. You made it with a bit of head room! But now the Hulk sees that he'll need to try harder to hit you. He spends 9 STR, doubled for an 18 stone attack. The new speed to CC rules offer a more hit or miss style and in this case, it's a hit. You still receive all stones SPENT into Defense but get no Double. So even if you went all Def you're getting 4 from CC and 6 from speed for a total of 10 Def. 8 Stones get through. You just weren't fast enough to completely avoid the hit like in the last panel.
Example of Speed Attack: Same 6 speed and 4 CC as before but this time we're taking on Sabertooth. With a 6 in speed and the speed for initiative option, you get the opening attack. Sabertooth has 4 in CC shifted to Def and 1 RD for 5 Def. You place 6 into speed and 2 into CC into Attack. The 6 from speed is doubled for 12 but Sabe's Def was only 5 so 1 point of your speed bonus is wasted giving you a total attack of 6 from speed and 4 from CC, so all of your spent stones get through.
If you have any questions, ASK! Any comments are welcome!
|
|
|
Post by raynorn on Dec 6, 2010 14:09:24 GMT -5
Would people still need to pay the +5 for an ability bonus or are you saying it is automatic or a specialty now?
My only gripe is that this buffs CC to the point that Ranged Attackers will feel Nerfed in comparison.
|
|
|
Post by Manah on Dec 6, 2010 14:18:00 GMT -5
I think he means it as the basic "Abl.bonus or Wpn.modifier" thing, but I could be wrong. If I'm right, that means those bonus don't apply if you're using a weapon, unless you do buy the "Abl.bonus AND Wpn.modifier" option (in which case they only apply to said ability, not the C.C action as a whole).
My thoughts: not bad at all... an interesting take. But frankly, you might want the "Efficient" part of Intelligence bonus apply on the whole action, not just the Intelligence ability. Otherwise, it seems a lot weaker than any other. I understand why you would make them seperate, but to tell you the truth, having Efficient only on the Ability score sounds like a +1/2 CL option to me, while all others would be good enough to be a +1 IMO.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Dec 6, 2010 14:30:38 GMT -5
I just feel like its needlessly complex. The ONLY good point of this entire $#@! system (aside from being diceless and therefore good for PBP) is its utter simplicity. I'm not a fan of anything that will increase the complexity, and having to know which stones in an attack or defense came from where is vastly more difficult.
|
|
|
Post by raynorn on Dec 7, 2010 21:00:58 GMT -5
I think he means it as the basic "Abl.bonus or Wpn.modifier" thing, but I could be wrong. If I'm right, that means those bonus don't apply if you're using a weapon, unless you do buy the "Abl.bonus AND Wpn.modifier" option (in which case they only apply to said ability, not the C.C action as a whole). My thoughts: not bad at all... an interesting take. But frankly, you might want the "Efficient" part of Intelligence bonus apply on the whole action, not just the Intelligence ability. Otherwise, it seems a lot weaker than any other. I understand why you would make them seperate, but to tell you the truth, having Efficient only on the Ability score sounds like a +1/2 CL option to me, while all others would be good enough to be a +1 IMO. If you are correct this could be a very cool way to run a Close Combat focused game Examples: Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Streetfighter style settings
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Dec 7, 2010 21:23:26 GMT -5
[glow= blue,2,300] Wow, and here I thought the Marvel System had several good point to it besides the simple nature of it's system and dicelessness. If those are the only two good things about the system, than why would anyone play it? The new rules sound complex, but I bet after playing them once or twice they are as easy as all the other Marvel System rules. Plus, they look like they would liven up Close Combat. Suppling the uniqueness to characters that I have read in the comic books all these years. Because, let's face it, Quicksilver doesn't apply Close Combat the same way that Spider-Man or Professor Xavier or Hulk does. I believe you have done an excellent job with these new house rules Ironfox. [/glow] Okay, first things first. If you post in this huge size and eye-destroying color again, I'm going to ignore the ever-loving hell out of the post. Second of all, people play this game because its good for PBP. If that weren't the case, MURPG would have fallen by the wayside with the rest of the godawful trash systems out there. This board isn't here because MURPG is a great system (as evinced by the fact that there are numerous attempts to make an actual working system out of this crapfest). This board is here because of the great GMs and players that have congregated here. There might be a few people still playing MURPG table top, but there's no accounting for taste. Or sanity.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Dec 8, 2010 12:28:05 GMT -5
Seriously.... is there a reason you're posting in such a huge size? `
Second of all, my post was not "low brow." Just because I disagree with you does not make me ignorant.
Third, and finally, people like you who seem to think it's unacceptable to point out the flaws in something never cease to amaze me. Nothing would ever improve if the world was run by people like you. When I got to this site (over 4 years ago now), there were ALREADY mountains of house rules to fix this system. I feel like I've done a few things to contribute to making the system usable myself, and I stand in awe of people who have contributed far more than I have.
All of these changes and contributions wouldn't be necessary if the system itself didn't suck in the first place. I'm not remotely sorry that my honesty offends you. I am sorry that you're not honest enough to admit that there are major flaws with MURPG, though.
|
|
|
Post by takewithfood on Dec 8, 2010 21:01:26 GMT -5
The guy with 2 posts is telling the guy with 22,764 posts that maybe he shouldn't post here if he doesn't like MURPG. That's cute. ^__^
Seriously, though, welcome to the boards, Zachariah. We're all friends here, so there's no need to get defensive or passive-aggressive. If WK seemed harsh in his critique, it's because we sort of treat each other like brothers and sisters around here (and WK in particular tends not to spare his opinions; you'll get used to him).
~TWF
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Dec 8, 2010 21:13:08 GMT -5
I was wondering why he expected better from me given we've never met, personally. But I was trying to stay on-topic.
|
|
|
Post by dorkknight23 on Dec 8, 2010 21:36:14 GMT -5
Welcome to the boards, Zach! If you're having trouble reading the text, I recommend adjusting the viewing settings of your monitor (Macs, for sure have a zoom feature to increase the size of text for those with eye conditions [and text reading for the visually impaired;] I'm pretty sure PCs do too if you're so inclined.) It will make for easier reading, and that way you can keep the text a size that keeps everything the same base size. If you want to post in blue, for this board, it's a bit hard to read, however. If you want something that stands out against the gray, I'd recommend a lighter color like orange or yellow or red or maybe Blue Violet.
Now, back on topic. Interesting variations, ironfox, have you had the chance to playtest them yet?
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on Dec 8, 2010 22:02:27 GMT -5
First, My eyesight is bad and large print is easier to read. My apologizes if it hurts your eyes, but I did stop using the blue color for you. See, now thats a response that is actually helpful. At least I know you're not just one of these internet goobers that doesn't know how not to be annoying by typing in all caps, etc. If other colors are easier for you to see, DK has provided a few good options that will be easier for others to read (I'm partial to the orange myself). You can see me as without compassion. If you hang around long enough, you'll come to realize I care very little what others think of me. I don't think its a weakness to have compassion, but I do think a prevaricating nature is a weakness. A person who will tell you when you're being stupid in frank terms, is a person you can rely on. With specific regard to Ironfox's rules... there are genuine flaws with the setup. It adds a level of complexity to a system primarily valued for its simplicity, and IMO moves a step in the wrong direction. The problem, if anything, isn't a lack of differentiation between Ability bonuses, it's a lack of difference between Ability bonuses and your actual Skill Action Number. Raw talent is all well and good, but in real life, it's training and study that make the real difference.
|
|
|
Post by ironfox on Dec 8, 2010 22:48:45 GMT -5
Um, Hi. Thank you, and yes DK I have.
I've used them a few times in my RL games. I play tested them in an X-Men vs Brotherhood game and the fight went about how I'd expect in the comics (aside from Cyclops being shot through the head by Mystique) and it didn't stay confusing for more than oh, 4 panels or so.
Thanks for the replies guys!
...heh, that rhymes.
|
|
|
Post by ironfox on Dec 9, 2010 17:36:06 GMT -5
Oh, and for the record I do enjoy MURP in RL games. In fact one of the best games I've had the pleasure of playing has been an MURP game I'm currently involved in.
To me, the gaming system doesn't matter as much as the people I play with and the things I get to do with the character I'm playing.
|
|
|
Post by malice on Dec 10, 2010 0:04:57 GMT -5
To me, the gaming system doesn't matter as much as the people I play with and the things I get to do with the character I'm playing. This is how I tolerated playing Call of Cthulu. The system is worthless, as is the base concept (Lovecraft's world is dumb), but because I was playing with my friends and NOT playing as the game was meant to be played I was able to have a good time.
|
|
|
Post by raynorn on Dec 10, 2010 10:04:34 GMT -5
MURPG is not without problems . . .
The system over reliant on total energy & energy refresh Some abilities are poorly defined Some abilities are game breaking (I am looking at you Ninja and Telepathy! Also Ninja + a pair of Psi Swords = Pile of bodies behind you) I wish there were more ways to modify powers.
BUT
Over all I think it is an under rated system. It resolves quickly - letting you concentrate on RP It is easy to learn It is diceless It easily converts to other settings It is fun for high adventure games It runs smoothly as a forum game It is comparatively inexpensive All of the prior mentioned issues are fairly easy to fix with house rules
YAY MURPG!
|
|