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Post by shenron on Dec 10, 2010 5:11:15 GMT -5
So, I finally picked up Deathwatch today.
I have only had a chance to flip through it and read the beginning chapter or so.
I have to say I am really impressed. I have always enjoyed the % system since back from Fantasy Warhammer 2nd edition.
It is a full color book, gives a lot of information on how normal humans become Adeptus Astartes and the Imperium of Man.
Artwork is good, rules seems laid out well and solid.
Just flipping through it makes me want to run a game or play in a game and it makes it very hard to put the book down.
The only beef I have is the price (Fantasy Flight Games are very proud of their products) and I think they could have thrown in a few more chapter options and specialty options.
Does anyone else have it? What do you think?
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 10, 2010 7:14:49 GMT -5
I have it. The system has flaws (your chance of success at skills you're theoretically good at is way too low initially), but the setting is just too awesome. I'm much more likely to get excited about Rogue Trader or uh... the other one, the one where you're an Inquisitor
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Post by malice on Dec 10, 2010 8:19:54 GMT -5
uh... the other one, the one where you're an Inquisitor Dark Heresy? You're an inquisitor and your chance of succeeding at skills you're theoretically good at is way too low initially. I may have just seized an opportunity to hate on a game without it being related to the discussion. Gotta vent every now and then.
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 10, 2010 8:21:10 GMT -5
That's the one!
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Post by malice on Dec 10, 2010 8:43:23 GMT -5
Sadly for me an interesting setting alone does not a good game make. It feels real neat until you actually have to roll the dice and feel the teeth of that hateful machine. You need a system that will make that setting play correctly.
Expecting me to roleplay a bad system is like chaining me down and then asking me to dance.
I've seriously enjoyed the roleplay elements of horrible systems, but EVENTUALLY you have to roll the dice, and it snaps you right out of it. Every game, no matter what its original setting and theme, turns into a survival horror game if you have bad controls. A bad system is bad controls. The horror comes from the bad controls, the survival is your greatest challenge.
Forget about killing the bad guys, rescuing the princess, slaying the dragon, or saving the day. All you can do is cower in a corner, play paranoid, and avoid contact with any hostile elements. When hostile contact is inevitable, you try to force every encounter into a very tight box. That box is uninteresting and unrewarding, and you'll be lucky to get out of it alive.
Obviously I wasn't satisfied to vent in just one sentence. Sorry.
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Post by shenron on Dec 10, 2010 13:21:56 GMT -5
The funny thing is I did not care for Dark Heresy. The setting was cool, but I did not like the leveling system and a few other things in it.
Now, Rogue Trader I want to get my hands on, Space Pirates? How badass is that.
Anyway, as for Deathwatch, what I have noticed in this new revision of the % system is that they added an extra box for when you advance in skills which I think it s waste of XP and time. I used to go Trained, Proficent (+10%), and Master (+20%). Now there is an Untrained Box for the first advance to show that you can use your skill untrained at half your ability rating round up. Maybe they do this becuase the book said you should be giving out approx. 750XP per session.
I think the system does have some flaws, but there are ways to lesson the flaws. It can be rediculously lethal at times. I think the GM would have to tailor their adventures to make it challeneging but not with a sure chance of death unless it is a huge battle or something like that.
As for low starting skills? On average you will be hitting a 35%+ starting plus training in skills and bonuses from talents or whatever they call their feats. It can seem low, especially in Fantasy Second Edition, Dark Heresy and the like. The good news is the baddies will be on par or just a little higher.
Deathwatch you have your starting skills as above but you get insane bonuses just for being a Space Marine and get to spend 1,000 XP to finsih up your character before you even pick up a bolter.
Not saying the system us perfect, but I think it works well for the setting and keeps it simple and lets players know, they better not jump into that tyranid hive with some serious back up/fire power or not at all and better find a different way to get what needs to be done.
I view it has CoC on crack with some serious fights thrown in.
Your mileage may very. I do not think it boxes you in, but you can't exactly go dungeun crawling against obscene odds.
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 10, 2010 13:29:44 GMT -5
Even if the baddies only hit 30 or 40% of the time, all that means is that combat is going to be hideously slow AND insanely lethal...
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Post by shenron on Dec 10, 2010 15:03:55 GMT -5
It can be at times, I agree. but with a decent roll of 2d10+30 for skills and skill traiing and XP, it should not be like that all of the time.
Regardless of its flaws, would you play it? Reccommend it?
I think it functions and can be fun to play but may require a tad tweaking.
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Post by WildKnight on Dec 10, 2010 15:09:01 GMT -5
I actually really like Dark Heresy (it's my favorite of the 3). Deathwatch is probably my least favorite, as full-on military games tend to bore me pretty quickly. I prefer intrigue and socialization to rapid fire bloody conflict.
I'm not a huge fan of the system, but I can work with it.
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Post by shenron on Dec 10, 2010 15:15:18 GMT -5
Ya, thats cool. I think that only downside of Deathwatch as a game (besides the few flaws in the system) is people grab it and figure straight military campaign. Which, makes sense.
I think it can be played as high powered "kill teams" that go investigate and destroy heresy, xenos, etc. They can also act as special forces with special objectives in any large scale combat thing.
I mean the "pruge the unclean" them in guts and glory is always going to be there. It was how it was designed but I think there are more options with it.
I really want to create the Thousand Son chapter and make them unchaos for sake of story. In my opinion, they have the best fluff and are just cool.
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