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Post by WildKnight on May 21, 2011 18:03:27 GMT -5
So if I'm a Dwarf, I can be a Wizard 10/Monk 5. If I take a level of Monk, which serves to bridge the gap, I still take an XP penalty because the classes aren't two levels apart. If I take a level of Fighter, however, and am Wizard 10/Monk 5/Fighter 1, there's no penalty because I'm taking a level in my favored class? If I'm a Human, my highest class is my favored class, yes? Your example is wrong. The multi-classing penalty only doesn't apply to your favored class. Meaning you can be a Wizard 10/Fighter 1 and take no penalty, but if you're a Wizard 9/Fighter 1/Monk 1, you're still taking a penalty because Monk and Wizard are more than 2 levels separate. On humans, yes.
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Post by Brainstem on May 21, 2011 18:08:07 GMT -5
Dumb rule is dumb. I mean, I do see where it's coming from, since a lot of fantasy tends to be about characters fitting into one niche rather than being able to dip into a little of everything, but it just feels so limiting. Maybe that's just what happens when you start with SWRPG.
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Post by WildKnight on May 21, 2011 18:50:35 GMT -5
Dumb rule is dumb. I mean, I do see where it's coming from, since a lot of fantasy tends to be about characters fitting into one niche rather than being able to dip into a little of everything, but it just feels so limiting. Maybe that's just what happens when you start with SWRPG. It's actually primarily for balance, rather than to enforce fantasy-adventure niche-filling. Trust me... free multi-classing allows for some absolutely broken combinations. Many character classes are front-loaded with Feats and class abilities, and they ALL get bigger Saving Throw bonuses at 1st level than at any other. Mathematically, there is no legitimate reason to be a level 4 Fighter if you can be a Level 1 Fighter, Level 1 Ranger, Level 1 Paladin, Level 1 Barbarian. Your BAB is the same, you've lost a grand total of 1 Fighter Bonus Feat, and your Saving Throws are astronomically high. The only downside is that you can't access both your Paladin and Ranger class features because of Alignment restrictions... still, totally worth it.
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Post by Brainstem on May 21, 2011 19:26:10 GMT -5
I guess that's true; didn't Star Wars have a rule where you could only take part of the Saving Throws from your classes?
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Post by WildKnight on May 21, 2011 20:47:00 GMT -5
I guess that's true; didn't Star Wars have a rule where you could only take part of the Saving Throws from your classes? - 2 to the base saves (to a minimun of +0), every time you took a new base class. Still didn't alleviate the cherry picking of class abilities and bonus feats, though. But Star Wars had other mechanics that indirectly made multi-classing less desirable unless you really wanted to fill a particular concept. Doing it for the sake of power gaming wasn't typically the smart move (though a Jedi Guardian 4/Soldier X was almost unquestionably better than a JG of equivalent levels, unless you wanted a PrC with a minimum Jedi level requirement.) The Unearthed Arcana book for 3.5 actually recommended that as an alternative rule for multi-classing, but to supplement, not replace, the Favored Class restrictions. I really never found these rules all that restrictive; generally speaking you can build any concept with two classes (particularly with the entire D&D 3.5 library available to you). You won't always be able to completely optimize those choices, but that's actually kind of the point. Monsters in D&D are NOT optimized. They're themed. Characters should be too.
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Post by Brainstem on May 21, 2011 20:54:42 GMT -5
I guess I never looked at it too much for optimizing, so all the rules seemed like were limitations on concept, but, come to think of it, 3.5 basically has a base class for EVERY concept, anyway.
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Post by WildKnight on May 21, 2011 20:57:23 GMT -5
I guess I never looked at it too much for optimizing, so all the rules seemed like were limitations on concept, but, come to think of it, 3.5 basically has a base class for EVERY concept, anyway. That, or a two-class combo into a PrC. Fighter/Rogue into Tempest, for instance, could make your Swashbuckler concept really hum
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Post by mcr on May 22, 2011 0:06:46 GMT -5
So here are some of the things I am considering: Something tank-ish like a WF Barbarian. Something shoot-y like an Elf Scout. Or something heal-y like a human Healer. No firm concepts yet.
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Post by WildKnight on May 22, 2011 7:11:11 GMT -5
So here are some of the things I am considering: Something tank-ish like a WF Barbarian. Something shoot-y like an Elf Scout. Or something heal-y like a human Healer. No firm concepts yet. Heal heal heal, heal-y heal heal, heal! Also, healing!
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Post by mcr on May 22, 2011 7:21:32 GMT -5
This reminds me of a bit from Family Guy for some reason. I may have the details mixed up in my head, but I think what happened was Brian tried to tell Peter that Loretta is cheating on Cleveland with Quagmire. He tried using various perfectly coherent English sentences to the same effect, and Peter completely ignored him. Then Brian started making barking sounds and Peter rushed off to go stop the shenanigans.
Let me get back to you on this.
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Post by WildKnight on May 22, 2011 7:24:50 GMT -5
LOL... yeah, I'm not a fan of that show for various reasons, but it does have its moments. That one was great.
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Post by dorkknight23 on May 22, 2011 15:03:04 GMT -5
Just so everybody's on the same page with the tone I was discussing earlier on, here are some source materials capturing the kind of noir and pulp-inspired action that I plan on using in the setting. Some of these might seem eerily similar to those looking on Page 7 of the Eberron Campaign Setting.
Movies: the Indiana Jones movies (especially Raiders of the Lost Ark and Temple of Doom) The Brotherhood of the Wolf Sleepy Hollow Casablanca Sin City The Maltese Falcon The Mummy Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Devil in a Blue Dress The Rocketeer
Books/Comics: two-fisted detective novels of the forties and fifties (cf. Sam Spade or Mike Hammer) pulp fantasy (especially Robert Howard, Michael Moorcock, and Fritz Leiber) HP Lovecraft (to an extent) Hellboy (again, to an extent)
Hopefully that gives people a good glimpse of the kind of stuff I have planned.
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Post by WildKnight on May 22, 2011 15:09:29 GMT -5
Sky Captain? So when can I build a fighter plane? Or an Angelina Jolie?
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Post by Black Sam on May 22, 2011 15:16:15 GMT -5
I think she falls under "Craft Golem"
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Post by dorkknight23 on May 22, 2011 15:16:18 GMT -5
Sky Captain? So when can I build a fighter plane? Or an Angelina Jolie? I usually don't dig her, but something was going on in that movie. Maybe it's the eye patch... And, come on, House Orien is clearly right there with the gnomes of Zilargo on the forefront of flying machine design (although tiny high-speed airships are decades away from realization... Unless some ambitious PC and a crazed DM start figuring out the mechanics of it. I say it needs a bound elemental and Overland Flight, just to get started.)
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