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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2011 21:35:15 GMT -5
At the end of the day, All Star Superman is an epic fail because it completely misses the point of Superman himself. Lex Luthor realizes he's wrong because he gains Superman's powers... suggesting that Superman is who he is not because of strong moral character or because of how he was raised or even how he chose to apply himself. It says that Superman was "good" because his powers allowed him to see the Universe in a certain way, and that anyone and everyone with similar perceptive abilities would somehow automatically subscribe to his worldview. I do agree with the fact that Superman shouldn't be considered morally good because of his powers. All of the other series portray him as being good because he was raised human, and by good people. Superman comments on that. I even think that Johnathan was protestant. Just about every other native Kryptonian is deadly with the exception of Kara, but she's snapped a few times herself. They had the same powers as Superman, but were not good by any definition. |
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Post by Jet on Jun 15, 2011 12:45:34 GMT -5
The problem I have (other than some of these titles aren't meant to survive, so its like a comic book version of survivor), is that I don't see any marketing for it. Perhaps this is phase one of a plan to get these books to the masses and 'save the industry' or whatever, but if there's no phase two in shot order, it's just going to be the Ultimate Universe all over. Three Years from now, continuity will be just as jarring. You know, that makes me wonder. As a guy not living in states I cant say, but what is DC actually doing to promote this new series to massess that dont know about comics? Sure, fans know where to look, but they dont need to be advertised to. Are there any TV commercials, posters in malls, newspaper news, internet other then comic book and stuff like that? Are they going to sell them in markets or grocery stores like they used to in 70's? You know, that time when kids actually BOUGHT comic books? |
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 15, 2011 13:46:42 GMT -5
Well, for starters, comic books are too expensive for kids here in the States. When I was a kid, a comic book was about 1$, which wasn't that big of a deal. I'd usually go to the comic store once or twice a month and drop maybe 5$ each time.
Now, a comic costs 5$ or more per issue. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem like the cost of anything else that I can think of has gone up to 5 (or more) times the price from my childhood. Softcover books ran about 5$, and now run 7 or 8. Action figures are in about the same range. Why comic book prices are so high is something I really can't understand.
Anyway, as far as promoting goes; if DK hadn't said something here, I never would have heard of this. On the other hand, I don't go out of my way to hear about comic books anymore, so maybe there is promotion out there and I'm just not seeing it.
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Post by Dhark on Jun 15, 2011 20:04:19 GMT -5
What do they NEED to market?
They're not starting anything new, or even re-doing anything. All they're doing is setting the numbers on the front of the comic to zero. It's not like a cannon reset/revamp/retcon... The stories continue on as if nothing happened. No retelling of origins, sliding timescales, or new realities.
Or am I mis-reading things?
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 15, 2011 20:42:29 GMT -5
They're not starting anything new, or even re-doing anything. All they're doing is setting the numbers on the front of the comic to zero. It's not like a cannon reset/revamp/retcon... The stories continue on as if nothing happened. No retelling of origins, sliding timescales, or new realities. The reason they're doing it is to create an easy "jumping off" point for people just now getting into comics. I don't think that's going to be a success if they don't market it to let people know now is the time to jump in  |
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 15, 2011 23:13:42 GMT -5
Marketing is definitely an area where the comic book companies can improve their game. I have a lot of friends who would like to get into comics (or back into comics after years of ignoring them), but they have no idea where to get started.
The ridiculous numbering system for comics is a big source of confusion. You can't just pick up "the" X-Men series and start reading.. there are dozens of different titles. Even if they want to start reading, say, New Mutants, which volume should they look for? And the word "volume" can mean up to three different things, depending on whether we're talking about collected issues or a re-launch of the same title.
This makes it hard to get into a series as recent and fresh as Runaways. I recommended the series to a friend, saying she should start at Volume 1, but she somehow wound up with the wrong issue. She got Volume 3, Volume 1, which was actually comic #23 or something stupid like that. How the hell are new people supposed to figure this out?
Not to mention the crossovers and events. Holy hell, that gets confusing.
But beyond this sort of marketing, I think the biggest barrier to getting new people hooked on comics is the medium itself. Most people don't want to own a comic book. Comics need to reinvent themselves! Its a digital age - people have phones and iPads and netbooks. As your average internet-user which comic books they read, and they'll say "none"; then ask them how many web comics they read, and they'll list at least a half-dozen. I have many geek friends who probably read over 20 web comics on a regular basis, each, and not a one of them has touched a physical comic book in over a decade.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 15, 2011 23:25:46 GMT -5
I agree for the most part, but the web-comic thing is kind of a non-starter as far as I'm concerned. Most web-comics are free, and Marvel can't afford to produce quality product and just give it away, even with advertisers on their website.
They DO have digital comics (Marvel anyway, and I'd think DC would too...), and that's probably a good idea, but they're still too expensive for broke folk like me.
As far as numbering, volumes, etc... I sort of agree, BUT I have no idea what they could do instead. You have to have some kind of system, and you have to tell ongoing stories. I don't think comics would have half the appeal that they do if it weren't for the fact that characters have long-established histories and relationships.
One thing I'm not really certain of is why there are so few super hero novels out there. I've read some really good ones, but mostly they rehash storylines that already happened in the comics. IMO, novels would be a great place to do an alternate universe and start fresh, which the companies seem insistent on doing through movies instead.
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Post by Dhark on Jun 16, 2011 0:46:55 GMT -5
They're not starting anything new, or even re-doing anything. All they're doing is setting the numbers on the front of the comic to zero. It's not like a cannon reset/revamp/retcon... The stories continue on as if nothing happened. No retelling of origins, sliding timescales, or new realities. The reason they're doing it is to create an easy "jumping off" point for people just now getting into comics. I don't think that's going to be a success if they don't market it to let people know now is the time to jump in An easy jumping off point? Are they planning on having a huge summary of pertinent backstory in the new 'First Issues' then? If you take a run that's currently in the 300's, and restart the numbering cycle at 01 and expect NEW readers to be able to just pick up from there you'll need to do a hella lot of backstory coverage to justify it being a good place to start. Otherwise it's just changing the little black digits on the cover. BFD. |
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Post by Jet on Jun 16, 2011 4:25:54 GMT -5
Why are people so afraid of continuity all of a sudden? If you want to read a comic book, just take one that looks interesting and read it. Unless its a middle of a story arc, you should be just fine. You dont need to know heroes origins to enjoy the story (heck, Spiderman TAS didnt do that untill few episodes in and people love this cartoon) or any tidbits that happened years ago, becouse a good comic will bring them up to speed with few flashback panels. The rest you should just accept and dont ask too many questions untill you're done with the story.
I got into comic books by reading Punisher vs Bullseye, back when I had no idea who Bullseye was, nor did I care about Punisher. Yet, it made me want to know more.
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 16, 2011 6:26:38 GMT -5
Why are people so afraid of continuity all of a sudden? If you want to read a comic book, just take one that looks interesting and read it. Unless its a middle of a story arc, you should be just fine. You dont need to know heroes origins to enjoy the story (heck, Spiderman TAS didnt do that untill few episodes in and people love this cartoon) or any tidbits that happened years ago, becouse a good comic will bring them up to speed with few flashback panels. The rest you should just accept and dont ask too many questions untill you're done with the story. I got into comic books by reading Punisher vs Bullseye, back when I had no idea who Bullseye was, nor did I care about Punisher. Yet, it made me want to know more. This is more or less what I said when I was talking about the need for ongoing storylines. I think all of us who ever read comics heavily just jumped on the train at some point. Very few of us had the luxury of coming in at the beginning of anything. |
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Post by Jet on Jun 16, 2011 8:28:08 GMT -5
Exactly. A typical fan is made via few easy steps.
1. Read random comic book.
2. Look through articles on internet.
3. ? ? ?
4. Pro- I mean, fanboy estabilished.
If anything, show people good comic books and hope they find it interresting enough to want more.
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 16, 2011 8:59:57 GMT -5
I read the Avengers Initiative comics recently, and I would have been so very lost if it weren't for the wikipedia and the marvel comics database. I had no idea who the hell most of the people were, and even in the ones I recognized said things that made no sense to me. I didn't read a lot of comics when I was a kid, though my friends did, so I absorbed a lot by diffusion, but obviously not enough. ^__^
But, thanks to some research, I did manage to figure just about everything out. If people are willing to do that, I think they'd be okay; it's just a matter of knowing where to look.
Still, I can see how daunting it is. Plus, people who are getting into comics now may be surprised when some of the golden/silver age references pop up. A lot of that stuff is pretty damn campy by today's standards, and I can see how it might throw/turn a new fan off. (I still crack up every time I see Flag Smasher. His fight with the Liberteens had me falling off my chair.)
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 16, 2011 10:22:58 GMT -5
Flag Smasher. Isn't it about time he gets his own comic?
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Post by Dhark on Jun 17, 2011 1:53:28 GMT -5
Continuity isn't a NEW concern for me, it's an old one. When I first started picking up comics, I would pick up a CURRENT issue, AND as far back as I could find (usually 01, or even older in previous volumes/titles). This is why I can proudly point to the entire Doctor Strange collection (Well, of his own titles. I have the graphic novel of his first appearances... I'm not made of money after all!). His solo title ended about the same time I stopped collecting comics actively. Coincidence? Not hardly. It's my OCD. I'm the same with with tv shows, movies and books. If I can't start at the beginning (even if that means watching and entirely different series because this one is a spin-off, prequal movies, or different novel series that came before this one chronologically)... I won't even bother. If I miss an episode of a tv show, I will NOT watch another episode until I'm caught up (even comedy shows, where there is no over-arching plot that would be hurt by missing a single episode). Needless to say it drives me crazy when author's/directors/producers release PREQUALS. <shrug> Which is why I can't just 'get-back-into-comics' now. It's been so long, and I've missed so much. Marvel or DC does a RETCON or RESTART at some point, I may start collecting/reading again. Until then, it's the Marvel Database Wikia and Torrent sites for me |
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 17, 2011 6:41:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I mostly keep up with the storylines through wikipedia myself, but occasionally I pick up a collected trade paperback from the library. They're fun, usually (though I've read a few stinkers as well).
I got on board right away with Ultimate Spider-Man and Ultimate X-Men (which were what you were talking about... a brand new starting point for those characters), and enjoyed them for what they were for a while. I didn't read The Ultimates until the collected editions started coming out, but Ultimate Captain America is far and away my favorite version of Cap ever. They weren't afraid to let Cap be damaged, but still ultimately (no pun intended) a good man and a great leader.
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