UpGrade

[kito]

Name: UpGrade
Secret Identy: Jenifer Lartz
Species:Mutant
Gender:Femail
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Actions: 9w 2r

Int:5i
Str:1
Ag:2
Sp:2
Dur:2

HP:2
Energy:10

Regen:5
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Abilitys

Close combat: 1 (1r)
(Agility or Weapon Modifier)
- Video Game Moves

Ranged combat: 2 (2r)
Wepon Mod
- Video game Guns

Concentration: 1 (2w)
(int bonous)

Manipulate Mutagenic: 5 (12w)
-Power Out of Control without Device
-Takes Extra Time to Prepair

Power Boost: 5 (12w)

Social Skills: 1 (1r)
-Gamer Chat
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Modifiers:

Coby Self Made Action/Ability/Modifier (15w) I thout yhis was fair its half wut the real copy is wut do u all think? she can only copy action she made with her Manipulate Mutagenic fields and a max of 5
-Max of 5 at a time
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Equipment:
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Challenges (12w)
Being a mutant (3w)
Haunted past (1w)
Power is painful to use (1w) Will take 1 red stone of dmg for every 3 stones into Manipulate Mutagenic fields.
Scared of opposite sex (1w)
Vulnerable loved-ones unaware of powers (4w) Close nit family fauther hates mutans
Won't break the law (2w)

a new hero made last night i think they need to lower there powers a bit for soem more genral action the Hero is only 16 years old so can have justifiable lower action for that reasion wut do u all think?

[Gryphynx]

Ok, gonna try to help you out a bit here.

First problem is Manipulate Mutagenic Fields would cost 13, not 12 (can't cut the cost by more than half... And it starts at 25)
Need to clarify the device and the extra time. On this particular action, I doubt any decent GM wou ld even allow it unless that extra time was an hour or more... I personally would Require that the action take several panels and concentration to work... And what device is required?

As for the Copy Self-Made Action/Ability/Modifier, I think your cost is extremely low. This is Steal Superpower, which is a 30 points, and limiting it to powers you create isnt really a limitation at all... If you get the Challenges as well as the power, I would allow a -1 to it for 25 points at best...

Its a cool concept, create super powers and then get them for yourself, but seveerly underpriced... In my opinion.

[kito]

thx i kinda agree with u but wanted to try and make there hero the way they wanted it, the basic idea of the hero will be to give them a power then u get it as well then use Power Boost to short it out so only u have it. as far as Manipulate Mutagenic Fields it takes rufly 24 hours to "kick in" so to speak basikly how it works is befor we RP they tell me who they want to "upgrade" we work it out Befor the other players arive, and when/if they "upgrade" then it does not take effect untill the "upgraded persion goes to sleep. the devise is a sepcial Gloves and Headband wore by the girl we dont have tem made up yet in the rp so they are not doen. (here inventing friend is makeing them) so altho she has bot this power she does not know she has it or how to use it yet.

p.s if u got any idea wut to tweek or wut can help make the hero more like she wanted at a cheaper cost im all for it.

[malice]

Gryphynx, the half cost thing refers to the cost LEVEL not the cost in stones.

So the most you could cut a 25 stone action - which is cost level 12 - is to cost level 6. You could not cut it down to cost level 5.

So if UpGrade wanted to put enough disadvantages on her cost level 12 action to get it down to cost level 6, she could get it for only 4 stones.

Only at cost level 18 does it become necessary to pay AT LEAST 12 stones (cost level 9), and the number 13 will never come up in cost levels. It goes from 12 to 15 and makes no stops in between. Some actions let you add stuff for 1 white stone, most of those are in the spidey guide.

[Gryphynx]

Sept 8, 2011 19:16:44 GMT -5 malice said:

Gryphynx, the half cost thing refers to the cost LEVEL not the cost in stones.

So the most you could cut a 25 stone action - which is cost level 12 - is to cost level 6. You could not cut it down to cost level 5.

Pg 39: Marvel Universe Roleplaying Game

You can add Disadvantages to lower the cost of something, but that cost can never be reduced by more than half or to less than one red stone.

I see the word stone in the rules. I also see "the cost" not "the level" in there. I can understand why some may have it only reduce the level, and can accept that as a House Interpretation, but you can't call it as canonical fact... sense the text seems to suggest that the actual cost (in stones) is where it's at.

[Gryphynx]

Sept 8, 2011 16:10:33 GMT -5 kito said:

thx i kinda agree with u but wanted to try and make there hero the way they wanted it, the basic idea of the hero will be to give them a power then u get it as well then use Power Boost to short it out so only u have it. as far as Manipulate Mutagenic Fields it takes rufly 24 hours to "kick in" so to speak basikly how it works is befor we RP they tell me who they want to "upgrade" we work it out Befor the other players arive, and when/if they "upgrade" then it does not take effect untill the "upgraded persion goes to sleep. the devise is a sepcial Gloves and Headband wore by the girl we dont have tem made up yet in the rp so they are not doen. (here inventing friend is makeing them) so altho she has bot this power she does not know she has it or how to use it yet.

p.s if u got any idea wut to tweek or wut can help make the hero more like she wanted at a cheaper cost im all for it.

Hmmmm, the only way I can think to get the costs you want is to add them as Advantages of the Manipulate Mutagenic Fields modifier. Maybe +3 to duplicate the Actions to you, and +2 to Short out that power on them in the process. So, it becomes a +12 Action. Level 5 in it would make it 50 stones, reducing it to 25 (5 levels) wouldn't be too hard... -2 for no LoEs, -2 requires a touch (in a combat situation, no damage required, but you have to beat their Agility for resistance), -1 power is short-lived, either next time the power is used, or 10 panels...?

[Ricochet]

Sept 9, 2011 7:27:33 GMT -5 Gryphynx said:

Sept 8, 2011 19:16:44 GMT -5 malice said:

Gryphynx, the half cost thing refers to the cost LEVEL not the cost in stones.

So the most you could cut a 25 stone action - which is cost level 12 - is to cost level 6. You could not cut it down to cost level 5.

Pg 39: Marvel Universe Roleplaying Game

You can add Disadvantages to lower the cost of something, but that cost can never be reduced by more than half or to less than one red stone.

I see the word stone in the rules. I also see "the cost" not "the level" in there. I can understand why some may have it only reduce the level, and can accept that as a House Interpretation, but you can't call it as canonical fact... sense the text seems to suggest that the actual cost (in stones) is where it's at.

Yeah, well most of us go by the Force Blast example. Then there are probably some who don't use this rule at all. That's 3 interpretations for one rule.
And about the stone thingy, It only tells us that you can't lower the cost to less than one red stone. Beyond that, it only tells us that you can never reduce the cost by more than half. In fact it doesn't mention if it's cost in stones or cost level, although the latter is a game term that is used frequently.

And that's why most of go by the Force Blast example. But yeah, monkeys with typewriters.

[Gryphynx]

Ok, but "cost level" doesn't really make sense since 'cost' is what you pay...

If we look at the Force Blast example, there is also 2 ways to look at that. The first is your way, in that 20W (11 levels) can go down to 4W (Level 6). Or my way... Disadvantages can reduce the cost by no more than half (a rule that preceeds Advantages), then you can add Advantages. (House Interpretation: And balance out those with additional Disadvantages if you desire)

So, on Force Blast, looking through my own Interpretation (which to me, seems more canonical), his level 9 Force Blast costing 12w can have enough Disadvantages to reduce it to 6w. He lowers it from 9 to 6 right away with "No LoEs", his next step is to add 2x Damage to take it back to 12w, and because of that (and the 6w limit), he now gets to -2 for Power out of Control without device. (Notice that the order in Force Blast is precisely that... Dis, Adv, Dis.)

Not saying my way is right, but it seems more canonical, allows the Force Blast example, and fits the wording better on "cost" since levels aren't something you pay.

[Ricochet]

Yeah, well that's the point. Cost is not a crystal clear term. If they'd have said cost in stones or cost level, it would be much clearer. I don't really know which side I should be on anyway, so who cares.

[malice]

So if you pretend that your advantages and disadvantages were added in a certain order rather than all at once at character creation, you get to pretend that you didn't just break your own interpretation?

Here's the way Cyclops's force blast worked: +2x damage = cost level 11. That's 20 stones. Your interpretation says he can't possibly pay less than 10.

Except he paid 6. That's all there is to it. He added all of those advantages and disadvantages at character creation, not in any special optimized order. It goes up, and then you reduce it.

The reason you see the word stone is because that's the least you can pay for an action no matter what. It would have said that no matter how much better they clarified it, because that's the smallest amount you can pay for anything ever.

The only way things are shown to us is in cost levels. Therefore it is the only possible interpretation, because nowhere does it explain how to do it your way. Nor does it explicitly state that your way is the correct way, and in fact the weight of evidence leans against it.

If you want to keep slapping your players with a nasty rule that makes them pay lots of extra for things, go for it, but you'll be doing it out of accordance with the books. It will be "correct" as long as you're running the game, because rule zero is the GM is always right (last I checked, maybe it's rule 1/2).

However, if you want to critique people's CADs on these boards, I recommend focusing on the actual rules and not house rules. A lot of times house rules are better, but not everyone uses the same ones.

ESPECIALLY when you think you're educating someone who may or may not know the rules, it would be courteous to give them only the correct ones so as to spare them confusion later. When I tell people how to do things I tell them how they're done in the books, I don't tell them how much better my way is. I might point out the flaws of the books, but it is up to them to decide if my way is better.

[Gryphynx]

Less malice, Malice.

I've not yet said that you were wrong, or that I was right. I said your House Interpretation. Ricochet is correct, its vague. I'm pretty sure that my Interpretation is correct, and have already agreed (just by stating that you have a House Interpretation, instead of saying that it's a House Rule), that I was wrong to say it IS as I say it is to Kito. If yours is an Interpretation, than mine is too, obviously.

You can argue it as much as you want, but it's not gonna make my Interpretation wrong (nor make yours right), and trying to be derogatory about it with phrases like "slapping your players with a nasty rule", etc, isn't conducive to discussion.

At the time I posted, I honestly had no idea that anyone would interpret it any other way. It makes no sense to me, but I can at least understand why you Interpret it as so. You are right that I should not state it as rule in critiques, and I won't now that I am aware of alternative Interpretations. But... my Interpretation is NOT a House Rule, it's an Interpretation with sufficient canonical text to support it.

[malice]

Since it's very popular to leave discussions unresolved, we can go with that.

I apologize that my post had an overly negative tone, I was trying to finish it quickly because I had to leave on an errand. I let my exhaustive experience with this particular debate get the better of me because just like everyone else, I type faster when I'm not thinking about it as much.

[kito]

Sept 9, 2011 7:38:32 GMT -5 Gryphynx said:

Sept 8, 2011 16:10:33 GMT -5 kito said:

thx i kinda agree with u but wanted to try and make there hero the way they wanted it, the basic idea of the hero will be to give them a power then u get it as well then use Power Boost to short it out so only u have it. as far as Manipulate Mutagenic Fields it takes rufly 24 hours to "kick in" so to speak basikly how it works is befor we RP they tell me who they want to "upgrade" we work it out Befor the other players arive, and when/if they "upgrade" then it does not take effect untill the "upgraded persion goes to sleep. the devise is a sepcial Gloves and Headband wore by the girl we dont have tem made up yet in the rp so they are not doen. (here inventing friend is makeing them) so altho she has bot this power she does not know she has it or how to use it yet.

p.s if u got any idea wut to tweek or wut can help make the hero more like she wanted at a cheaper cost im all for it.

Hmmmm, the only way I can think to get the costs you want is to add them as Advantages of the Manipulate Mutagenic Fields modifier. Maybe +3 to duplicate the Actions to you, and +2 to Short out that power on them in the process. So, it becomes a +12 Action. Level 5 in it would make it 50 stones, reducing it to 25 (5 levels) wouldn't be too hard... -2 for no LoEs, -2 requires a touch (in a combat situation, no damage required, but you have to beat their Agility for resistance), -1 power is short-lived, either next time the power is used, or 10 panels...?

Hmm i like the idea but so far ill probibly just keep the player they way they are maby ask them to lower mutigenic fileds by 1-3 for soem genral knolge computers and gaming and ask them to incres mutigenic fileds with loe later and ceep the copy action mod and out of control for now, altho i do like the way u changed it the changes wont properly represent the hero they desire, and altho im probibly not a good GM certently not the best i always try to make there hero come first. Thx all for your help