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Post by kito on Jan 11, 2012 9:36:03 GMT -5
Idk y u cant use fly to carry yourself? not throw yourself i would say i would let u fly But at Running Speed not flight speed, As i can think of Manny times she would bring a book across the rom to here slowly or move a chair or just lift something up without Throwing it. i would not let u get a Full fly but as i said Fling at Running speed you still can fly It is gonna Take u a lot more energy to get half the distance But you would be Flying there.
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Post by Rinjo on Jan 11, 2012 23:00:07 GMT -5
I think the answer is really easy and has already been mentioned. Tk allows you to carry/throw. As most characters weigh about 2r you would treat yourself as an object. So you could absolutely levitate yourself. But to remain stationary in the air it would cost you 2r. To move 10' you would need to spend 3r. Without any bonus the maximum distance a TK could move himself would be 80' in a single panel which is a significant distance if you picture it vertically.
I think that the -1 to flight would be absolutely appropriate though. As 'fits with main power' sounds just right for someone who can move things with their mind.
Anything else would be a house rule I think. moving at the run distance on the D&R chart doesn't make sense because you can't throw things as fast/far as the run chart, so why would you be able to 'throw' yourself that far? Lifting/carrying/moving/throwing is what TK does. Simply substitute your character for the 100-250lb object and you should be good to go.
As far as accuracy goes, I wouldn't be concerned either unless there was a specific resistance due to outside conditions. We assume you could pick up a rock and set it 80' away why would you not be able to do the same with yourself.
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Post by Brainstem on Jan 12, 2012 0:23:13 GMT -5
Also remember that, when holding heavy objects, the Resistance increases every Panel.
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Post by Rinjo on Jan 12, 2012 0:24:46 GMT -5
I hate that rule with a passion. I can carry my son for an hour without having to drop him. Easy. Not to mention throwing a 60 pound backpack on and marching around. That rule is bunk!
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 12, 2012 16:38:01 GMT -5
I hate that rule with a passion. I can carry my son for an hour without having to drop him. Easy. Not to mention throwing a 60 pound backpack on and marching around. That rule is bunk! Yes, but what you can't do is lift 100 pounds over your head and hold it up there for an extended period, which is what that rule is for.
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Post by Brainstem on Jan 12, 2012 18:05:05 GMT -5
What he said. Carrying yourself around Telekinetically wouldn't be the same as holding your child, it'd be comparable to carrying something your own weight around. I don't know about you, but I'd have trouble hefting 175lbs of anything for very long.
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 12, 2012 18:15:46 GMT -5
Particularly given that a panel is 30 seconds, which is actually a pretty significant amount of time to be holding a heavy weight.
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Post by Brainstem on Jan 12, 2012 18:16:41 GMT -5
Yep. I'm going to try that next time I'm deadlifting... see how long I can hold my bodyweight. Will report back to tell you my Durability score.
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Post by Rinjo on Jan 12, 2012 22:35:56 GMT -5
Which is hy I like the wk house rule of old. If your ate is higher by 3 or more than no cost to lift or hold. I can't hold 100 pounds above my head for long. Rogue, hulk, superman could indefinitely.
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Post by Brainstem on Jan 13, 2012 0:13:38 GMT -5
Do you know that, though? Just because they have super strength doesn't mean they have super endurance. Not all big muscles can last as long as others and, even then, you'll get tired. Strength scores represent sheer lifting power with Durability reflecting ability to maintain.
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Post by Rinjo on Jan 13, 2012 4:16:39 GMT -5
I feel like I am posting this twice but it is not howling up on my iPhone. Hmmm.
========= Absolutely Brainy. Here are my thoughts… Any being can carry a trivial amount of weight (though what trivial is varies from being to being). For example a human being can easily carry 5-10 pounds without batting an eyelash. Your clothing and shoes comes in at this range. Wearing shoes and clothes does not tire you out. An infant can wear a onsie and booties, even when learning to walk and the resistance on their clothing does not increase after a few ‘panels’ and cause them to fall down in exhaustion. Though the effort of learning to walk often can. In fact this is a core mechanic of D&D that we rarely argue with. Your ability to carry a load is determined by a mix of your strength and durability/endurance as you have stated… but MURPG doesn’t take this into account. Maybe it shouldn’t when we are talking stone to stone. But reality does. An elephant can lift a certain amount with his trunk and carry a certain amount on his back. Loading his back with 2 people isn’t going to phase him in the least. He can carry you through the jungle all day and it wouldn’t take him any real additional effort. So an elephant picking up 300 pounds + gear and carrying it around is a trivial amount of weight to the elephant because it is an insignificant amount above what it is conditioned to lifting already (ie its own body weight). Similar a horse can carry an average sized man around all day without really caring… though he may want to pause and eat. My dog can carry around 25% of his body weight for hours (his backpack) and 10% of his body weight almost indefinitely. I use pack animals as an example because they are really our only organic examples of super-human strength. If The Hulk can lift a train over his head, jamming his finger through a 16 pound bowling ball and wearing it as a pinky ring isn’t going to faze him in the least. The weight would be absolutely trivial. What that upper limit is, is debatable, but I think the last Hulk movie did a good job of portraying what I am talking about. When he ripped the car in half he basically used each half like a set of brass knuckles. It was effortless for him to pick up the car because relative to his strength he was still only carrying a light lode. Now I fully realize in the stone to stone system that I am treading on very dangerous ground… but I think that anything that is less than your strength -3 should be a trivial amount of weight. So if you have a strength of 10, picking up something that weighs 7 should be effortless. It should take an action, but not any stones. Throwing it however should because you have to put effort into throwing something… and effort into ranged combat if you want to hit a target with it. That means with a strength of 4, picking up something weighing 1 would be free (though you need an action to do it) A strength of 7 would let you pick up a weight of 4 etc. What it does do is allow your strong scrappers a little bit of competitiveness with their other cooler counterparts. Because now they can pick up big weapons and add them to their close combat. Use one action to pick up a car… then use close combat and the cars weapon mod (Weight Mod) to smash it into someone. HULK SMASH style. Is it perfect? No… but the idea that Hulk cannot carry around a hundred pounds is laughable to me. Hulk could put Andre the giant on his shoulders and march across the country without stopping for a drink… Assuming he can sustain his rage for the entire march.
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Post by Neros on Jan 13, 2012 4:50:15 GMT -5
which is probably very dangerous. One of my current players actually does this. He grabs hold of himself tosses himself at the enemy.. But then again, he also has a good healing factor to compensate for the impact But no, you cannot fly telekinesis. You can simulate it by lifting yourself, but thats about it..
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 13, 2012 7:47:49 GMT -5
Which is hy I like the wk house rule of old. If your ate is higher by 3 or more than no cost to lift or hold. I can't hold 100 pounds above my head for long. Rogue, hulk, superman could indefinitely. What do you mean "of old"... I still use that rule (But not for Telekinesis) BTW, you posted your response to this thread in the Dark Knight thread boss
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Post by malice on Jan 13, 2012 8:35:31 GMT -5
Ah ha! THIS Is where rinjo thought he was posting when he made that very strange post in the Dark Knight Rises thread! I was wondering about that.
I think I just give a -1 to cost level on fly if you have TK. Discourages people from looking at the throwing rules...
Also for fun I thought I'd mention that fat people tend to be stronger cuz carrying around their own body demands more of their muscles. Sadly for all of us, the tendons and ligaments that keep all that together do NOT get much stronger the way muscles do (Thought they do strengthen and weaken, just not by the same rules).
Your clothes are TYPICALLY a trivial amount of weight, but that's because people just prefer clothes that are a trivial amount of weight. There are plenty of clothing items out there that have a consequential weight, even if they don't FEEL extra heavy just a few ounces above "trivial" can cause various joint problems. I know my ankles don't hurt when I'm working (I am on my feet all the time at work) but I believe the steel-toed boots I wear cause my ankles to hurt later when I'm not at work.
That's just the recent example that came to mind, I know from working with different kinds of attachable weights in my past that the strain is almost NEVER where you think you'll feel it, and it's frequently a pain in the joints that lets you know you're doing something unhealthy and aren't getting the benefit you think. I can't remember what clothing or item I wore for awhile in the past that weighed enough to make me feel like I could leap like a frog after I took it off, I think it might have been either very heavy very wet winter clothes or some kind of purpose-built equipment.
The point is that clothes are often a trivial weight, but they're often not, and super hero costumes look awkward at best.
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Post by Rinjo on Jan 13, 2012 14:29:21 GMT -5
That post was awesome. Every time I thought you were making a point you threw me a curve ball. I do understand what you are saying though and totally agree. I have steel toe and regular military boots. I know the difference in my knees when I switch. Also that is a big problem with roofers. Main muscles get big, but bones and ligaments don't grow fast enough to support the new weight.
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