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Post by roxolid on Feb 11, 2012 4:30:16 GMT -5
You got it.
The SCALE and RATING of an Ability/Action/Modifier start out at the same level. Spidermans Strength of 5 has 5 Scale and 5 Rating. Thors Strength of 10 has 10 Scale and 10 rating.
You can increase the rating of an Ability/Action/Modifier by spending energy, 1 point per +1 Rating up to double its starting level. Over that, it costs 2 for the next point, 3 for the point after that, 4 for the point after that, 5 for the point after that and so on.
Example:
Thor has 10 Strength. He can lift 50 tons without spending any effort. That's because the Scale of 10 Strength is 5 tons. Multiply that by the rating of 10 to get 50 tons.
To lift over 50 tons, every point of energy adds +5 tons (because each Rating point is multiplied by the Scale, which for 10 Strength is 5 tons).
The player can spend up to 10 energy points, gaining 5 ton lifting capacity per point up to a Rating of 20 (times 5 tons = 100 tons). Beyond that, it will cost 2 energy to add another 5 tons (up to 105 tons), 3 energy for the next point (up to 110 points) and so on.
A characters upper limits are thus defined by their SCALE and RATING, plus their energy pool.
However, 'Digging Deep' allows a character, when they have spent as many energy points on a task as they possibly can, to call on an extra amount of energy equal to their starting amount (so, 18 points for Thor). This works in a different way, because every energy point adds +1 Rating, regardless of how many points the player already spent on the Ability/Action/Modifier.
So, Thor has 10 Strength and 18 Energy in his pool.
He lifts 100 tons and spends 10 energy to do so. He then pumps 2 points and another 3 points in to increase rating to 22 (starts at 10, bought 10 more with 10 energy and another 2 more with 5 energy). Thor can now lift 110 tons. It's not enough for lifting the <whatever>. Thor 'Digs Deep'. He adds 18 Energy which increases the rating of his strength on a 1 for 1 basis. That means Thors rating goes to 40! He can now lift 200 tons, twice what his previous maximum was, but the effort will leave him without energy for 2 panels (or maybe 3, still working that out) and he can only pull that off once per adventure.
I'll get round to figuring out what Angry Hulk can do, but characters with Growth will really be able to break the limits of what Strength can do in this game. The bigger they are, the harder they fall, though... (so yeah, I'll be tweaking that. Don't expect a character with Growth to be able to dodge much.)
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Post by kito on Feb 21, 2012 0:38:36 GMT -5
Not see any activity on this thread in a bit im amusing your still working on it but plz keep us up to date XD as u "finish" anything plz post it. so we can tear threw it as it comes and is still fress in you mind.
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Post by roxolid on Feb 21, 2012 5:00:18 GMT -5
No worries - still juggling this with real life, work etc.
Will see how much I can get done later on today and post something up. The basic game mechanic is the same. The number listed on a character sheet is the scale and starting rating of that Ability/Action/Modifier. You can increase the rating by adding energy. Scale x Rating vs Target number for task success. Scale also determines how far you can increase your rating before it gets expensive. I had toyed with changing things about when you combine two scales (say, Agility and Acrobatics). an example:
Agility (2) and Acrobatics (5) are combined when a character performs a gymnastic display. If the player adds no energy to the task attempt, the total is 7 (combined scales) times 7 (starting ratings, same as the scale) = 49.
The problem I have is that adding two things together like this makes tasks a lot easier. For instance if the difficulty of a gymnastic routine is 35, and the Agility+Acrobatics are combined as above, the character doesn't need to add energy. Acrobatics of 5 on its own would need 3 energy (to boost rating to 8 from 5. You need to exceed the target number for success). Acrobatics 5 is world class, better than any olympic athlete, so how much difference would the characters Agility really make to tasks unless that, too, were world class?
I toyed with using the higher of two combined abilities, and the lesser ability adding free rating stones to the larger ability, but you aren't able to spend energy on the lower score.
Using the example above... The Target number to exceed is 35. The characters Agility is 2, Acrobatics is 5. The Agility 2 adds two rating stones to the characters Acrobatics, raising it from 5 to 7. The character still needs to spend another energy point to succeed at the task (to bring it up to 8. 5 Scale x 8 rating is 40, exceeding the target number.) A combined ability/action or two actions therefore helps with the energy cost but doesn't allow you to pull off the impossible, it just makes success easier (because you don't have to spend as much energy).
Does that make sense? It's something that stalled me for a while as I tried to come up with a number of different solutions. One including dividing the lower ability by the higher actions scale, but I scrubbed that. The point of doing this is to be fast, easy, and to ditch the death spiral/dependence on modifiers. I think I'm just about there, but there are kinks to iron out.
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Post by roxolid on Feb 21, 2012 5:44:40 GMT -5
Let's use anther example: ![](http://s17.postimage.org/azlr6erfz/IMG_0006.jpg) Daredevil can use Agility + Close Combat when making an attack. In the MURPG he spends 9 energy, is exhausted (down to zero) and recovers 3/panel after. He's screwed, in other words. Using the same method of attack he has 3 stones. Against multiple, fresh opponents, he's toast. In the first system I wrote up in this thread, he adds Agility and Close Combat (total 9) and can spend 9 energy to boost it to 18. Next panel he can put up CC 5 + Agility 4 + Energy 3= 12 attack. In the example of the proposed changed system, He uses Close Combat (it's the highest of the two) and adds Agility to CC's rating, boosting it from its starting value of 5 to 9 without spending any energy. He can then spend 1 energy to get his Attack up to 10, then spend 2 energy to boost it to 11, another 3 energy to bring it to 12, but doesn't have the 4 energy needed for another point to bring it to 13. Next panel he can put up CC 5 boosted to 11 (because he gets 4 free rating stones from agility, spends 1 energy to bring CC to 10 then another 2 points to bring it to 11). There's not a vast difference between the second two. The first (existing MURPG system) has him burned out after panel 1. Hardly what you see in comics. I'd change modifiers so that regardless of whatever else you spend energy on (and with the changed system, you can only spend energy on one action/ability for a single task) you can always spend energy on modifiers. That gives them back some of their importance, plus of course for every 1 energy you get 2 rating for your modifier. The main difference with combining two actions/abilities is that you no longer combine scale. The lower of the two adds free rating stones to the higher one, making it much cheaper in costs of energy, but doesn't allow you to pull off superhuman stuff. Combining DDs Acrobatics, Agility and Billy club in Roxolid ver. 1 rules would give him 12 scale/rating in acrobatics. There'd be very little he couldn't do. In Roxolid ver. 2 rules he gets Acrobatics 5, with rating boosted to 9 from Agility and 4 free rating stones from the weapon. That would bump his Acrobatics up to 11 (from 9 to 10 with a stone from the weapon, 2 points from the weapon to bring it to 11, but not enough points from the weapon to bring it up to 12). Scale 5 x 11 rating = 55. Somewhat less than the 144 (12 scale x 12 rating) of before. If we used the old Marvel Superheroes ranks (Incredible 40, Amazing 50 etc) DD would be able to pull off an Amazing (50) rank Acrobatics move. probably not far from the truth. Still playing about with it. I think ver 2 is the way to go, just need to type it up so its easy to follow. If anyone can draw/cook up pictures of homebrew heroes with a quick write up of what they can do, I'll chuck them in instead of using copyright images, just to break up the walls of eye bleeding text.
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Post by roxolid on Feb 22, 2012 20:58:56 GMT -5
Been working away on this. Here's an example from the PDF (thus far): Example. The sharp eyed detective known as Sam Sterling investigates a crime scene. The GM rules that his Detective Action is appropriate, and it comes with an Intelligence bonus. The GM also states that Sterlings’ Enhanced Senses modifier will add to the task attempt. Sterlings Detective Action is 5 and his Intelligence is 4. His Enhanced senses modifier is 3. The Intelligence bonus increases the Rating of his Detective by 4 points from 5 to 9, and he spends an extra energy point to bring it up to 10. So far his task attempt is 5 (Detective Action scale) times 10 (the Rating, increased from 5 to 9 by his Intelligence bonus then from 9 to 10 by 1 energy point). That makes a total of 50. Sterling then spends 3 energy on his Enhanced Senses Modifier, boosting its rating by 2 per energy point spent. That brings his Enhanced Senses Modifier Rating up to 9 (3 starting, plus an extra 6 points from the 3 energy spent, because you get +2 rating per energy point spent on modifiers). His Enhanced Senses Scale is 3, multiplied by its Rating (now 9) equals 27. Add his Detective Action Task Attempt (50) to his Enhanced Senses Modifier task Attempt (27) to get a total for the Task Attempt of 77! This easily exceeds the target number of 40! The GM then interprets the result as; Sterling finds a clue – a half smoked cigarette with an unusual aroma. There’s lipstick on the cigarette and it’s still reasonably warm. He reasons that a woman smoked it not more than half an hour ago. Furthermore, he recognizes the smell as a distinctive Turkish brand, not readily available at vendors in this country. That would mean they were imported, or more likely, brought over from Turkey. In addition, he recalls that there was a report in the last week stating the infamous Turkish socialite Miriam Kurdazi arrived in town last week for a fashion show. Not only that, but he remembers that Kurdazi’s own company, a fashion house, had ‘trumped’ a number of designers around the world with the latest fashion designs and the cries of protest from ‘jealous’ designers had gone unheeded.
He calls a contact in the Customs department and confirms that Kurdazi was a passenger on flights to locations with fashion shows where there was some uproar about her company coming up with certain designs that were, if not identical, extremely similar to those that were stolen or copied from other houses! Much of it was dismissed as ‘sour grapes’ in the industry, but Sterling is not so sure. He also remembers seeing a paparazzi picture of Kurdazi leaving a hotel. The logo in the pictures background was partially obscured, but exposed enough to confirm his suspicion, especially after what he’d just noticed…
“Check out Miss Miriam Kurdazi’s suite. I believe she’s staying at the Belvedere View Hotel. There you may find the stolen fashion designs and dresses. Be quick. She was here less than half an hour ago.”
“How do you know all that?” asked Smitty, the uniformed police officer who often accompanied Sterling on his cases. She knew Sterling would never reveal the extent of his knowledge, but he was hardly ever wrong!
“Lift your foot” he replied. Smitty did so and saw a spent book of matches underneath it – with the Belvedere Hotel logo on it! Smitty smiled, shook her head, then shouted “Come on boys!” before they dashed to their cars, leaving Sterling to light up his own cigarette and run over the facts of the case in his mind again…
![](http://s18.postimage.org/4a83e3lah/excerpt.jpg) That's a snippet. I have to admit, working in Word to make reasonable looking PDFs is crap. I will look at a Desktop Publishing package (preferably a free one!) when all the words are written. I need some art as well - walls of text make my eyes bleed.
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Post by kito on Feb 27, 2012 9:14:21 GMT -5
thx for keeping the pos tup ive been to buissy to visit sight in the last week or 2 but will try to read theas over the next 2 days and tell u wut i think. thx again.
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Post by roxolid on Feb 27, 2012 18:47:12 GMT -5
Still on it, looking for ways to make the wording simpler in places. Once I've written up the task and combat section up, I will write all the action/powers/modifiers up. Many haven't changed, some, quite a lot (like Force Field, which works a lot like a modifier). One area I'm toying with is damage. Reduce Durability as per original rules or keep Health points as per the changes (which are 3 X Durability plus 1x Strength). I'm leaning towards health points at the moment to keep things simple.
Other than that, thought about target numbers for tasks. two ways of doing it. The SCALE of the task (1-10) and the Difficulty (like a rating, from 1-10 or more). The scale would stay the same, so if a task were one which an expert human could try, it would be Scale 4. Then build up difficulty. Difficulty starts at 4 (same as scale) then increases due to conditions like weather, visibility, distraction, less than ideal working area.
e.g. A character tries to sneak into a museum with a security system said to be 'world class'. The GM states the Scale is 4 (so Difficulty starts at 4 too). Difficulty is then increased by: Regular Guard patrols mean not much time to work +2, Going in blind, without some idea of what to expect +3, working in the dark with minimal lighting +2. That means Scale (4) x Difficulty (4+2+3+2=11) = 44 Target number.
Another way of working out target numbers would simply be to use the old Marvel Superheroes game ranks. The GM could simply state it is an Amazing (50) target number.
Using the (now modified) task rules, Black Cat tries to get into the Museum without setting the alarm off. She has Thieving (5) and Agility (3). She picks Thieving to use as the scale or 'lead attribute' (you don't add both together to find scale now. One is picked as the Scale, and the other adds to the rating). Her Thieving (5) gives 5 rating which is increased by her Agility of 3, so she has 5 scale and 8 Rating. So far she's spent no energy. If she goes into the museum thinking it'll be a pushover, she'll set the alarm off (because she hasn't beaten the target number). Like it or not, she'll have to spend some energy to accomplish the task.
The other thing I've thought about is when people recover energy. I'm thinking a Healing Factor will recover health only, rather than energy as well. I also think it'll mix things up if the GM picks a number randomly (roll a die, pick a card, flip a bunch of coins and count heads, whatever) and that determines when ALL characters recover energy.
e.g. First round of a fight. Player A vs Bad Guys B, C, D run by the GM. The GM flips 5 coins and counts the heads, coming up with 3. He tells Player A that 3 panels of combat will pass then he'll recover his energy. Player A will have to decide whether he spends all his energy at once and hope to take a couple of enemies out, spread it out over the 3 panels, or some other combination of spending energy. For the bad guy NPCs, the decision is easy. The GM spends 1/3rd of the energy points they have in each panel. After 3 panels, all characters recover energy and the GM flips coins/rolls dice/turns a card to find out when the characters recover energy next.
Remember that even without energy characters can act, though not to their full potential. Not sure about this yet. Might make it a optional rule. At the moment, when out of combat there's nothing to stop characters banging in an much energy as possible to get the job done. This way, you could say, flip 5 coins, count heads and tell the player that they recover energy after the (flipped head result) number of actions have been attempted.
e.g. Black Cat makes her way into the museum. The GM flipped five coins and came up with 2 heads. She's spent energy on 1 action, needs to attempt another action before she recovers any. She gets to a vault and tries to open it (second action). After that, she recovers energy and the GM flips coins again, coming up with... 5! She'll have to be careful about when and where she spends energy for the next 5 actions!
Note, all characters would regain energy at the same time, but the amount of energy recovered depends on the character themselves. Thor (6 Durability) would recover 6 points. Hulk (Accel Healing plus 7 Durability) gets 10, but both would have to accomplish a certain number of actions (however many the GM determines) before they recover that energy.
Any thoughts on that? It would mix things up, add a little bit of strategy? Do you go in, all guns blazing, hang back, dodge, let the opponent tire themselves out, take a measured approach and spread your energy between Attack/Defence, Damage/Resistance over several rounds?
Just throwing ideas out there. If anyone has a better/more interesting way of doing things, do tell!
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Post by vjcsmoke on Mar 4, 2012 14:28:37 GMT -5
Random x panels energy regeneration. First, it aids a random element. Second, it hampers when energy regens in a game where energy is generally problematic already. Third, it complicates npc energy management for the GM. You decide whether or not you want that, but I mostly prefer simpler solutions because they are easier to run on the GM side and easier to play on the player side.
ex. 4 players vs 4 npcs. GM flips 3 coins. Bad guys all have 9 energy. Easy to divide. What if GM flips 4 coins instead or how about 5 coins? Now the players. Player 1 has 12 energy, player 2 has 15, Player 3 has 9 energy, player 4 has a 14 (using mental energy rule with Int 7). A nightmare of energy division, and that is assuming that the NPCs all have identical energies which won't always be the case unless you are constantly throwing waves of vanilla thugs at them.
The TaskxRank system sounds simple enough. It's the 'boosting' that adds a lot of math. Is there a simpler way to do it?
Let's say you assign a difficulty to a task 50 - Amazing. Daredevil has 4 acrobatics and 4 agility. Can he pull it off? 4x4 = 16. No way. Let's make it simpler, if he spends 8 energy on top of what he already has to boost his acrobatics to 8 x agility to 8 = 64. Yes he can pull it off. Simple math.
Now the thing with the 'staggered' boost scale that you suggested, which increases by either 1x or .5x; eg 1000 lbs, 1500 lbs, 3000 lbs, 4000 lbs. It makes it complicated to track without a calculator and charts in front of you. The goal of an easy to run system is simplicity.
Lastly - Dig Deep. I like the idea of Dig Deep, it reminds me of Flashback in Marvel. Except the effect can be a lot stronger. What worries me is using Dig Deep in conjunction with Combat. Doubling the total stones in combat on a character designed to inflict high damage has the potential of one-shotting bosses even with an HP system in place.
I am also concerned that the drawbacks are too severe even with the benefits being so strong. Perhaps the benefit of Dig Deep should be reduced or limited as to what it can affect. I don't like the idea of 0 stones energy for a character after digging deep. But I can see a stone deficit. And why does Dig Deep have to be double every time? What if it is less than double?
For example.
A. Cyclops has 9 energy pool. He uses his optic blast 9, plus 9 stones into his energy pool to boost his attack. That is 18 stones. Now he 'digs deep' for a 36 stone attack. After the attack hits, double any damage that got through because of the 2x damage option. Ouch.
B. Cyclops has 9 energy pool. He uses his optic blast 9, plus 9 stones into his energy pool to boost his attack. That is 18 stones. Cyclops 'digs deep' for an additional 9 stones for a 27 stone attack. After the attack hits, double any damage that got through because of the 2x damage option.
In scenario A Cyclops used dig deep for an additional 18 stones. His deficit is 18 stones. He will recover from his deficit in 2 panels time. In the mean time he can use normal rating actions at default level but has no extra energy to 'boost' his attacks or actions while recovering. In scenario B Cyclops did not dig as deep, and he will recover from his deficit after 1 panels time. Of course usually people will opt for option A because it is so much more powerful and its a one time use deal. Dig Deep is dangerous. It's not like flashback that only offers about a couple of stones of sitmod advantage.
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Post by roxolid on Mar 4, 2012 17:51:38 GMT -5
Good points, and as I'm still chewing through/ironing out sections (including combat) I'm happy to take on board suggestions/changes to make things easier and faster. I'll answer each question as best I can:
Random x panels energy regeneration. <snip>
You can spend energy for bad guys as required and as you say the 'division' works best for 'mooks' or bad guys all with the same energy levels if they work as a team. e.g. the Wrecking Crew with 15 energy each and generally work together well (before losing). Even so, you might get a numbskull like Piledriver going in guns blazing (blowing all his energy in round one) and a smarter guy like Thunderball (if I recall he was the least 'dumb as a rock' of the four?) hanging back, defending, picking his shots and getting the job done with patience leaving wrecker and the other guy (name escapes me at the moment) attacking with equal effort.
The random element of energy regeneration is an idea I just tossed out there, to get reaction and feedback. I wanted to reduce energy book keeping because every round there's totals to update and alter, and with the 'revised' way energy works, it's not quite as vital as before.
I also thought about simply stating that all characters recover energy after 3 rounds of combat or 3 attempted tasks outside of combat, and all characters recover it at the same time, with some recovering more than others (energy recovery will not be linked to Durability as per the MURPG rules. I want it to represent luck, fate, karma, will/exertion and determination to succeed rather than simply the biggest toughest guys have the most energy)
The TaskxRank system sounds simple enough. It's the 'boosting' that adds a lot of math. Is there a simpler way to do it?
Let's say you assign a difficulty to a task 50 - Amazing. Daredevil has 4 acrobatics and 4 agility. Can he pull it off? 4x4 = 16. No way. Let's make it simpler, if he spends 8 energy on top of what he already has to boost his acrobatics to 8 x agility to 8 = 64. Yes he can pull it off. Simple math.
The problem with doing as you've written (and as I originally used) is that 4 Acrobatics and 4 Agility should not equal 8 Agility. 8 Agility in the old FASERIP game (to use an example) would be around Monstrous rank (Silver Surfer). On the best day of his life Daredevil might accomplish Amazing tasks, which is what Spiderman regularly did.
In the mk 2 draft I changed it to "When combining 2 or more actions/abilities choose the highest to act as the lead attribute (Scale) and the others add to the rating." With 4 Agility and 4 Acrobatics, it doesn't matter which is the lead attribute (Scale) because they are the same. If he had 5 Agility and 3 Acrobatics, it would be 5 Agility used as Scale, and starting rating of 5, boosted by 3 points by acrobatics to 8.
Once you have the scale, add the other attributes (abilities/actions/modifiers) to the rating. Rating starts the same as scale (so in this example, DD would have 4 Scale, 4 Rating) then gets boosted by his acrobatics (4) to 8 rating. 4 (scale) x 8 (Rating) = 32, somewhat different (half!) to 64. He can do that without spending a single energy point, so using the FASERIP ranks he can pull off RM (30) rank feats in his sleep. Note also that he gets to add his billy club (4) which brings rating up to 9, and spends energy (7 points) to bring it up to 10 (costing 3 energy) then 11 (costing a further 4 energy). Now we have Scale (4) x 11 Rating = 44, enough to succeed at Incredible (40) tasks. In the FASERIP game that would require a roll of 61+ (Yellow feat) for Daredevil so it needs to be harder to achieve in this game, imho.
If he digs deep (once per adventure, leaves him on zero energy) he can add 9 (his starting energy pool) to the rating, bringing it to 20 and thus giving him Scale 4 x Rating 20 = 80 task attempt, enough to succeed at a Monstrous (75) task, but it will require all his effort and leave him exhausted - he is only human. Spiderman would find it far easier to pull off a Monstrous task.
I've also scratched my head and pondered about the 'digging deep' mechanic, and agree with the point you make about using it to one shot a bad guy, to a certain extent. When you dig deep, you can add it to one task in a fight (either initiative, Attack, Defence, Damage or Resistance) so it's not the be all and end all. It might help you survive a hit from the Hulk, but you'll be in trouble after! It might allow you to one shot Thor - if you can hit him. It might allow you to hit Spiderman, but you'll not do much more than your standard damage (but at least you hit him) or it might allow you to make the ultimate effort and dodge a blast from Galactus (defence) and make him look silly (just don't count on it)
I'm happy to take suggestions on the 'digging deep' - including only using it out of combat, giving half of your starting energy, or having nothing to do with extra energy at all.
For instance, when you 'dig deep' you could get rid of the extra cost associated with going beyond double the Scale with your rating. Example: Daredevil has 3 Strength. It costs 3 energy to boost his rating from 3 to 6. Then it costs 2 for the next rating point, 3 for the rating point after that, 4 for the rating point after that...
Using the altered 'digging deep' he could spend all 9 energy to boost Rating from 3 to 12, thus allowing him to succeed with a lift (scale 3 weight=100lbs) of 12 x 100lbs (1200lbs) which isn't beyond the realms of what he might be able to do if really pushed. These are the comic books after all.
I dunno. The digging deep mechanic should be an ultimate effort at whatever the character uses it for, and should come at a cost.
Now the thing with the 'staggered' boost scale that you suggested, which increases by either 1x or .5x; eg 1000 lbs, 1500 lbs, 3000 lbs, 4000 lbs. It makes it complicated to track without a calculator and charts in front of you. The goal of an easy to run system is simplicity.
Haven't settled on a scale chart yet. The problem with the MURPG is that it makes big jumps between points, so you have 1 strength as 100lbs, 2 strength as 250lbs, 3 as 1000lbs max press, 4 as 2 tons, 5 as 5 tons, 6 as 10 tons, then 25 tons for 7, 50 tons for 8, 75 tons for 9 and 100 tons for 10. It kind of doubles, then it doesn't. I want to find a 'sweet spot' whereby the scale doubles or triples with every extra point, and continues all the way up to 100 tons or so at 10 strength. Same goes for movement, distance, time, information, volume and money. If you know the DC Heroes game of old, you'll know that APs doubled with every point (so 6 strength was 1.5 tons, 7 strength was 3 tons, 8 strength was 6 tons etc) which made things easy to work out. I agree about the calculator concern so round numbers will definitely help.
Let's say weight scale 5 is 1/2 ton. Spiderman (5 strength) lifts 5 (his strengths rating) times 1/2 ton (weight 5 on the scale chart) for a total of 2.5 tons. He adds 5 energy to get to 10 rating. 10 x 0.5 tons is 5 tons. He then adds 2 energy to bring rating to 11, 3 energy to bring it to 12 (and that's his lot - he only has 12 energy in his pool). 12 rating times 0.5 tons is 6 tons. That's probably what I'll end up with - a round figure or exactly half of a round figure (1000lbs isn't quite half a ton).
Lastly - Dig Deep. I like the idea of Dig Deep, it reminds me of Flashback in Marvel. Except the effect can be a lot stronger. What worries me is using Dig Deep in conjunction with Combat. Doubling the total stones in combat on a character designed to inflict high damage has the potential of one-shotting bosses even with an HP system in place.
Agreed - but with the proviso that you need to ensure that you hit first. The system as changed no longer favours the guys with the biggest strength/power scores vs agile targets. They can use their strength or their attack power (energy blast, telekinesis etc) to combine with their attack in order to hit, but that reduces damage greatly. Cyclops could inflict an awesome amount of damage on a static opponent, and I think he's severely underrated with the current system. In that, he blasts once and is screwed. In this, you need to get in, fast, before he starts tagging you.
I am also concerned that the drawbacks are too severe even with the benefits being so strong. Perhaps the benefit of Dig Deep should be reduced or limited as to what it can affect. I don't like the idea of 0 stones energy for a character after digging deep. But I can see a stone deficit. And why does Dig Deep have to be double every time? What if it is less than double?
For example.
A. Cyclops has 9 energy pool. He uses his optic blast 9, plus 9 stones into his energy pool to boost his attack. That is 18 stones. Now he 'digs deep' for a 36 stone attack. After the attack hits, double any damage that got through because of the 2x damage option. Ouch.
B. Cyclops has 9 energy pool. He uses his optic blast 9, plus 9 stones into his energy pool to boost his attack. That is 18 stones. Cyclops 'digs deep' for an additional 9 stones for a 27 stone attack. After the attack hits, double any damage that got through because of the 2x damage option.
In scenario A Cyclops used dig deep for an additional 18 stones. His deficit is 18 stones. He will recover from his deficit in 2 panels time. In the mean time he can use normal rating actions at default level but has no extra energy to 'boost' his attacks or actions while recovering. In scenario B Cyclops did not dig as deep, and he will recover from his deficit after 1 panels time. Of course usually people will opt for option A because it is so much more powerful and its a one time use deal. Dig Deep is dangerous. It's not like flashback that only offers about a couple of stones of sitmod advantage.
I think you've gotten the Digging Deep mechanic slightly mixed up with Example A. Cyclops has 9 energy, 9 energy blast. He blasts with all his effort (9 Energy) for a rating of 18 to inflict as damage. He then 'digs deep' and gets another 9 energy to add to the rating bringing it to 27. If anything gets through (remember Durability+Toughness would reduce damage from the damage inflicted) it's doubled, but I wouldn't think for a moment that he'd trouble, say, Hulk much, even if he dug deep.
Digging Deep, in my opinion, should be the tie breaker, the fight finisher. Someone could 'blow their load' (pardon the phrase...) in the first round of combat with all of their energy and digging deep. If it works, great. If not, I want them to realise that they screwed up.
When a character 'digs deep' they should be aware that it's a one shot per adventure deal, it goes into one task only, and leaves them exhausted afterwards e.g. 'going nova' for the human torch, 'I say thee... NAY!' for Thor... 'Hulk IS THE STRONGEST ONE OF ALL!' before jolly green wallops the bad guy. For Spiderman it'd be 'This is for Aunt May! and THIS is what I thought of the Clone Saga!' before delivering his biggest effort.
Used in combat, digging deep can be a winner, or a deal breaker. That said, I'm open to suggestions about changing it. In some ways it breaks the rating mechanic and allows characters to do crazy stuff that they might not otherwise be able to do (Daredevil to lift 1200lbs for instance). Happy to look at alternatives, but with the revised system, even without energy characters can act, albeit at half capacity (which is still powerful in many characters case. The thing has 9 Strength whether he's tired or not. If he hits someone, he does 9 damage plus accuracy plus energy. Against someone like Spiderman with 4 durability he's going to do damage whether he add energy or not)
As for Situational Modifiers, if a character has one that applies in a situation, they'd get a free rating stone to use.
Example: Captain America faces off against Batrok the Leaper. Batrok has his crazy foot leaping karate thing so gets +1, Cap uses Shield Fighting and gets +1
Where I haven't quite figure out in Combat is where Intelligence comes in. I had intended it to cancel out negative modifiers (due to range, speed of target, angle of attack, cover etc) but still working on that.
I'm also thinking about combined Actions/Abilities/Modifiers. I'm thinking modifiers in combat should add rating directly to any ability/actions/energy. That makes them more powerful, but I'll deal with that with the costing.
Example:
Wolverine has 3 claws. He Attacks (Agility+ Close Combat + Energy) and gets a total of 14 (7 CC as lead attribute+Agility 4+3 energy) vs a Robot (Speed 4+4 energy) with defence total of 8.
He hits, with 6 points difference (2 successes. That means 2 accuracy)
His damage is Strength 3 (lead attribute) plus Accuracy 2 + 1 energy (total 6) plus Claws 3 (with 3 energy spent on it, adding +6 rating for a total of 9 from claws). His damage total is 15.
The robot has 4 durability and 5 toughness. It sticks 3 energy into durability (up to 7) and 5 energy into toughness (boosting that to 15). The robot has 22 defence and Wolverines claws glance off it!
However, Wolverine has spent 7 energy of his 15, the Robot has spent 12 of its 12, leaving it with nothing!
Next round (assuming the robot doesn't drop Wolverine with its own attack) I'm betting Wolverine scrags it up because he's the best at what he does etc.
Modifiers in that example break the rules of increasing rating, in that they add to it directly. Say you have 4 durability, spend 4 energy to bring rating to 8. To bring it to 9 would cost 2 energy, to 10 another 3 energy and so on.
Having toughness 3 would allow you to add directly to the rating with your Toughness 3 which in this example, increases Resistance to 11 from 8.
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As I've written stuff for this, I'm testing it and trying to find ways to break it. As a result I am re-writing (on the 5th re-write for combat) to fix things as I go. I'm sure Actions/Modifiers will further break that (modifiers and actions that work like modifiers) but I reckon that whatever comes out at the other end might be slightly crunchier but worth it, in that it fixes the one shot then screwed and death spiral, plus over-reliance on modifiers. I also want it to use existing CADs, but they will work in a different way (e.g. Thor won't be as potent because, as written, he could probably take anyone out. He'll still be badass, mind.)
Combat is heavily biased towards attackers. If someone wants to dodge, they can use an action to add to defence at the expense of adding one to their attack. This means fights aren't usually stalemated with no one hitting another character, and Digging Deep breaks ties as well when used at the right time. I foresee 'the right time' as when a stubborn foe needs just one more hit to go down, others might see it at the beginning of the fight and hope to one shot the other guy. If it don't work, they are in trouble.
Always open to suggestions/fixes or even scrapping stuff (the Scale x rating and combining actions/abilities have changed a couple of times already).
Oh yeah, done when it's done, but I do bits for it every day.
Apologies for the mega post. It's a bit of an eye bleeder...
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Post by Jet on Mar 9, 2012 5:16:27 GMT -5
I didnt read it all, mostly becouse Im intimidated by the walls of text, which doesnt really seem like "easy to understand, just read my 100 page essay".
Also, make a separate thread for that, if you will. This was supposed to be about MURPG RAW, not about mods.
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Post by roxolid on Mar 10, 2012 4:03:19 GMT -5
Some of the posts are long and 'turn off'-ish. What I originally posted the 'best of/worst of' for was to get opinions on what people thought worked, didn't work, needed fixing and needing junking in the MURPG, then my suggestions/ideas to change things (hopefully for the better).
I'm writing the Actions section of my house rules doc (having finished mechanics and the basics of combat), but it's all in draft at the minute, so won't be the easiest thing to read as I've made notes, suggestions to come back to, big questions marks as in 'will this work' and so on.
The house rules will add crunch. As far as I've tested so far, they will also fix a few problems of the MURPG system. Whether people want to use them (when finished) or not is another thing, their choice.
I'll break any further posts I make up, but will post up a new thread for the 'Roxolid Rules' version when I have something easier on the eye to show. That means a couple of editing passes to make sure the terms and rules are easy to understand.
If we restrict this thread to suggesting things on a list that people would like to see fixed or changed and I'll stick it on a list of things to do. When the draft is ready, I'll stick out a section at a time for anyone to look at and suggest fixes/changes.
Ideally, I'd like to have made this a community project, but from experience I know how that goes - it generally starts enthusiastically, but with little direction. Once real life kicks in, it falls by the wayside and fizzles out. I guess that makes the Spidermans guide to New York very impressive - not just for the content, but for the fact people started it, stuck with it, and finished it. That said, I wanted this thread to get suggestions and bounce ideas off people for opinions, but yes, walls of text will put readers off, so I will bear that in mind (and put more pictures in)
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Post by kito on Mar 11, 2012 15:09:03 GMT -5
only red some so far. i do like option 2 for dare devil as well over option 1.
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Post by roxolid on Mar 11, 2012 23:14:11 GMT -5
I'm working on the Actions/Modifiers at the moment (and have a few gaps to fill in with the combat too).
What are the main 'broken' Actions/Modifiers that people don't like? Also some idea why (rather than 'it sucks') would help so I can try and figure out a way to fit it into the Scale/Rating system.
I'll also be looking at a revised D&R chart (or 'Scale' chart as I'll call it) and will post something up in the next couple of days.
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Post by kito on Mar 12, 2012 2:06:49 GMT -5
Psycho centric template (Dont know if i pelt it right)
I dont find it broken just anoying, i helps to much stuff and a rather cheap cost and as u posted u wanted int to take a part in combat this migth be just fee mod for int.
Concentration Altho not broken will it serve the same job in you system as in the original system?
Bio computing how would this affect you system just free energy or would it factor into you scale system?
Think thats all i got for now.
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Post by roxolid on Mar 12, 2012 3:17:52 GMT -5
With a number of the 'busted' actions/modifiers, simply upping the cost may work in some cases.
There's another question:
Cost of stuff (1r=1, 2r=2, 1w=3 etc). I was thinking of dropping the red stones and simply having character points to buy stuff with. Costs would then be one of two things:
1) Buy the AN you want plus extra Cost depending on the action and options. e.g. Acrobatics is AN+2, which means if you wanted Acrobatics: 5, you add 2 to the cost for a cost of 7
2) Some powerful stuff will cost more, and have a cost multiplier. Certain masteries, phoenix force etc would have a cost multiplier of x3, x5 whatever. So you buy Phoenix Force: 5 and it might cost x5, so 25 points.
I want to make things easier/faster. If that doesn't improve things I'll leave costs as they are.
Will take a look at the Actions/Mods you mention and see what I can come up with.
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