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Post by ladders on Mar 1, 2012 19:32:23 GMT -5
I don't know if this interpretation has been suggested before (the search function never properly works for me) but I've always thought area effect should simply nullify reflexive dodge, so you would still need to divide stones to affect multiple targets. My logic behind this being that it costs the same as armour penetration (which nullifies toughness, which costs the same as reflexive dodge). I've always thought of reflexive dodge as being just avoiding the punch or bullet (etc.) as opposed to properly getting out of the way (using acrobatics for example), so an area effect attack would be the difference between a throwing knife and a rather diffuse fireball, say five feet across. In my (admittedly limited experience) this has worked quite well.
Now this is probably still under-costed, but I considered having force field as part of a mastery working like this: for every red stone you put into your mastery action box you get one free stone of defence. So you can use the stones in the action box for any effects you would normally be capable of, or put them into defence for it to act like the force field action. You could put four stones into your mastery and get an automatic four stones defence, then either blast the baddies with those four stones you put in, or move them into defence to get a total of eight stones defence. I can see this working well for intelligence-based energy characters who are usually very squishy and (in my opinion) the victims of a certain amount of over-costing.
So, any thoughts?
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Post by malice on Mar 2, 2012 7:48:13 GMT -5
Is this a joke?
Area Effect DOES nullify Reflexive Dodge, you DON'T need to split stones, and Mastery Force Fields - although poorly explained in the book - probably were intended to work like that.
Not trying to be rude or anything, but like other people on the internet I feel a need to say "I feel this is a prank" before I bite anyway. If you are simply new to the game it's understandable that you wouldn't have arrived at all the same conclusions as others have. One of the major weaknesses of MURPG is that it isn't very clear what the authors intended much of the time.
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Post by Brainstem on Mar 2, 2012 11:19:24 GMT -5
Hostile much? Even after the edits... I can see your interpretation of AoE making sense and, if it works for you, keep it. It's really a much cleaner way of applying it than trying to determine how area is factored in to everything else (split stones for area when attacking... stones of damage = stones of area... something else ridiculous), but I think AoE is meant to cover powers that effect a wide range of targets at once. It could be anything from a huge fireball to a 360 degree shockwave, to dangerously effective Close Combat. We've discussed the Free Force Field for Masteries a few times and, while the consensus still is up in the air, I'm a fan of your solution to the rule. We've come up with a few others, but yours is the one that comes up the most and makes the most sense with regards to game balance, although balance isn't something that MURPG had much concern with. And, just to poke a bit, what makes you think Intelligence based heroes are over priced and too squishy? It's one of the many ways to break the game through RAW. You can get 6 stones every panel for only 8w. Getting that much through Durability would either cost 12w or 10w (Durability 4 with basic Healing Factor) and, in both cases, you're limited by white stones you've got, whereas Intelligence energy isn't ever limited. That said, you seem like a decent type with a good head. Stick around the boards... we need more of you.
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Post by ladders on Mar 2, 2012 19:19:30 GMT -5
Is this a joke? Area Effect DOES nullify Reflexive Dodge, you DON'T need to split stones, and Mastery Force Fields - although poorly explained in the book - probably were intended to work like that. Not trying to be rude or anything, but like other people on the internet I feel a need to say "I feel this is a prank" before I bite anyway. If you are simply new to the game it's understandable that you wouldn't have arrived at all the same conclusions as others have. One of the major weaknesses of MURPG is that it isn't very clear what the authors intended much of the time. I wasn't claiming to have some profound insight, I was just suggesting it as an alternative (and easier to apply) way of using it, which I felt had some logic behind it. Hence why I posted this in the "House Rules" section and not the "I am thy god and these are my commandments!" section. The vagueness of the RAW make it sound (to me at least) like putting AE on force blast, for example, would basically allow you to hit everything within a quarter of a mile for however many stones you put in the action box each. Which would make it, in my opinion, severely under-costed. Hostile much? Even after the edits... I can see your interpretation of AoE making sense and, if it works for you, keep it. It's really a much cleaner way of applying it than trying to determine how area is factored in to everything else (split stones for area when attacking... stones of damage = stones of area... something else ridiculous), but I think AoE is meant to cover powers that effect a wide range of targets at once. It could be anything from a huge fireball to a 360 degree shockwave, to dangerously effective Close Combat. We've discussed the Free Force Field for Masteries a few times and, while the consensus still is up in the air, I'm a fan of your solution to the rule. We've come up with a few others, but yours is the one that comes up the most and makes the most sense with regards to game balance, although balance isn't something that MURPG had much concern with. And, just to poke a bit, what makes you think Intelligence based heroes are over priced and too squishy? It's one of the many ways to break the game through RAW. You can get 6 stones every panel for only 8w. Getting that much through Durability would either cost 12w or 10w (Durability 4 with basic Healing Factor) and, in both cases, you're limited by white stones you've got, whereas Intelligence energy isn't ever limited. That said, you seem like a decent type with a good head. Stick around the boards... we need more of you. Thanks, and sorry, I didn't find anything like my idea for the mastery force field (whenever I use search it just times out). For shockwaves and such, I think they're better covered by just allowing the players to spend stones to increase the attack's area where it makes sense, just as you would for range, (so each enemy in that area will be hit with the remaining amount each) as is already part of the rules for force field and master of magic. I like the philosophy of "you get what you pay for", and it's already established that +3 CL lets you ignore one kind of automatic defence, and using stones can increase area. But the way AE appears in the RAW seems like an "and everything dies now" button because the character isn't putting any more effort into something that is obviously a bigger effect. As for intelligence-based characters; their white stones do affect energy (page 46 of the Avengers book; their pool is reduced by three red stones for each white stone they lose), it's a small effect but it does count. Also they're still paying the same rate for durability, sure it's less but they're still spending stones for nothing. The way I think of it is that you buy your abilities at normal cost level, pay for durability again to get your health and then pay again for durability to get your energy and as it's the default it has the advantage of giving you three times energy. Because intelligence isn't the default it only gives two times. Just as agility being the default for turn order meaning you don't have to pay extra for it like you do with speed, it doesn't make speed count for less in addition to having to pay more. That last paragraph was probably very unclear. What I would like to try (just to see how it would affect balance) would be to have it so that intelligence-based characters pay double for intelligence and double for durability instead of triple.
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Post by WildKnight on Mar 2, 2012 20:26:17 GMT -5
The RAW on Area Effect isn't vague. It's actually very specific. Every stone you put into the power with Area Affect fully affects everyone within an area equal to that same number of stones on the Area row of the D&R chart.
It's very very simple. Stupid. But very very simple.
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