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Post by takewithfood on Jun 3, 2009 8:31:01 GMT -5
Hey gang,
If you have questions, comments or suggestions regarding the rules, this is the place to stick 'em!
I'm always interested to hear what you guys think - that's really the whole point of this exercise, aside from just having fun. I'm also eager to talk about my point of view, my concerns and experiences with the rules. None of the rules are final, they're all in flux.
So, what do you think?
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 3, 2009 10:34:17 GMT -5
Oh arseface. I had just gotten Metamorphosis the way I wanted it, and I think I forgot to actually hit "submit" lol. I'm an idiot.
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jun 3, 2009 12:22:01 GMT -5
Well, Ill just have to comment Metamorphesis when you are able to hit that submit button AcrobaticsI can understand why you want to use the running row for acrobatics when using it as a movement action, but limiting it to you're speed sounds like you would be buying Speed twice.. I mean, you could be the baddest assest acrobat but if you're speed was 1, you would be rather slow.. Also, if you had speed 5 and Acrobatics 2, why use Acrobatics? Range CombatShouldent the extra ability bonus be aviable to Range combat aswel? Or to any Action for that matter? Drain EnergySo Range Drain energy will still works as usually? Or will it function like regular range combat? FlightI know its logical that you can only carry what you're Strength allows you to, but then the Human Torch would need a Strength of 3 which means he could only carry the Thing for a single panel.. But I seem to recal that he have been carrying him around for a good long while.. Unstoppable: Isent that example flawed? If the hardness is 6 and he puts 5 stones into it wouldent it mean he wouldent be able to do it? Limited manouvability: Isent this meant for people like Angle who requires room to move around and even take off? Or is this "disadvantage" counted into the "fits with main power" disadvantage? Force BlastCharge object: So does this work like normal charge object or is it in essence just force blast with a weapon modifier? Im thinking with the 2xDamage and Area effect? Also, thats quit a range for a thrown object.. Have you been thinking about making separete rules for throwning which would take a characters strength into consideration? Master of ElementHmm.. Im pretty sure we can make some fun options for this one.. Can't think of any at the moment... A option that i noticed wasent there (which there might be a reason for) was "absorb element".. I've seen a good deal of players take this.. Psi WeaponsWhat if you want to create a throwing knife? Will you have to spend stones each time you use it or will the energy stay in the action? If they don't stay, what about bows and spears? Stun: So stun is a set duration of time where the target can't..... What? Move? Lose a certain number of energy stones? Laugh?
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 3, 2009 13:11:47 GMT -5
AcrobaticsI can understand why you want to use the running row for acrobatics when using it as a movement action, but limiting it to you're speed sounds like you would be buying Speed twice.. I mean, you could be the baddest assest acrobat but if you're speed was 1, you would be rather slow.. Also, if you had speed 5 and Acrobatics 2, why use Acrobatics? Think of it in terms of being able to use your Speed to move AND still use Acrobatics, without spending two actions. For example, let's say Daredevil has a Speed of 3, and an Acrobatics of 4 with Agility 4 as a free ability bonus. He's running over rooftops while dodging gunfire from a bunch of Kingpin's goons. He can put up to 8 stones into Acrobatics, and shift, say, 1 of those to Speed, 3 to overcome the resistance of a jump between buildings, and the other 4 into Defense. He's moving, clearing a jump, and defending himself all in one action. By 1.0 RAW he'd have to spend two actions to do the same thing, which seems silly to me. Acrobatics is an action that involves movement.. really, it's just a different kind of movement than plain old running, as it involves leaps and tucks and rolls and anything else that might help you navigate tricky terrain. It isn't at all like buying Speed twice; it's really an addition to the Action that you can move at all. The reason your movement is limited by your Speed is because Acrobatics is still basically just enhanced running. Being able to leap hurdles doesn't make you faster, it just keeps you from tripping. Make sense? Another example: Imagine a gold medalist olympic athlete who has Speed 2, but Agility 3 and Acrobatics 7. If he sprints at his full speed he can move at Speed 2 on the running D&R row. Why should being able to jump with great skill make him faster? In theory he can put 10 stones into Acrobatics, but should that allow him to run and jump as fast as the speed of light? My answer is no, he's no faster jumping than he is sprinting. Yeah, when I get to the Advantages/Disadvantages section, I'll mention that Weapon Modifiers cost +3 CL in general. In theory you could buy a second Weapon Modifier for that "guns akimbo"/"both guns blazing" John Woo feeling, but in general weapons won't be terribly useful in MURPG 2.0 (or at least this incarnation of it). Skill will always be the determining factor. For now, Drain Energy is as it always has been. I'd like to change that, but we haven't really discussed it enough as a group. I do plan on going over this, though. Also, keep in mind that Energy Pool is its own stat, unrelated to Durability, and that your total Pool will be equal to the stat x 5, instead of the usual Durability x3. In other words, most characters will have nearly twice the energy they used to, which considerably weakens Drain Energy. Yeah, maybe we should have an option that breaks this rule. It's silly, but it's also a comic. As WK often says, you're happier when you don't think so much. ^__^ The rule states that even stones spent on airspeed count towards overcoming the resistance of an obstacle. Without this rule, characters may have to slow down in order to properly smash through an object, and that just doesn't make sense. I'm iffy about Limited Maneuverability, too. It's perhaps too strong as is, but I'm interested to see if anyone will bite and test it out. I wouldn't give this to Angel, but he might instead choose some made-up-on-the-spot disadvantage that required him to have a certain amount of room for takeoffs and landings. This option isn't meant to represent anyone in particular, it's just meant to clarify an existing rule. I don't remember many people taking "limited maneuverability", and I wonder if it isn't because it's unknown what actual effect it would have on mechanics. It's possible that we'll end up breaking it down into smaller options (one focusing on takeoffs and landings, one focusing on maneuvers), or more likely that we'll just get rid of it entirely. I might also replace/supercede it with a Disadvantage or two representing novices or people who have newly discovered powers and control issues that tend to come with them (accidentally going off, problems with aim, it won't work when stressed, etc). We seem to have a lot of games that involve young, inexperienced mutants, and such a disadvantage might be fun for that. With the plain +3 CL Charge Objects advantage, it's just a force blast with the option of applying a Weapon Modifier. Exactly how that's described is sort of up to the players. Perhaps someone charges up bullets in a gun and they explode when they hit objects.. maybe they charge objects and propel them at range as part of their power.. or maybe they charge objects that are already near their targets, causing them to explode. Anything is possible. However, to represent Gambit (and ultimately the old Charge Objects) you'd have to reduce your range to throwing distance, which is about Range 2. This is the old range of Charge Objects, and the range of most thrown weapons in 1.0. This would work out to be considerably less expensive, but it's important to note that weapons won't be worth nearly as much as they used to. Really, all a weapon modifier gives you is a variable Advantage (often just +1 damage, or maybe x2 damage) depending on what object you throw, and the option of using different substances (Adamantium, etc) if you have them at your disposal. I think someone proposed a house rule that handled throwing objects. I'd like to put forth something similar. The key elements are: a) how far can a really strong person throw something b) does someone with high strength do more damage chucking a knife, or a car at you? Yeah, I guess that isn't officially in any of the books. We should work on something like that for sure. I was also thinking of a free option that basically gives you something extra if you choose the Special Vulnerability challenge and choose to be vulnerable to an element that is typically/obviously in opposition to your Mastery. For example, if you're a Master of Ice and you choose Special Vulnerability (x2 damage from Fire), you should get something extra. The reason being that it's classic, and your opponents will probably be able to guess. Perhaps the Challenge can be worth one additional stone, or the Mastery can be worth -1 CL. Something like that. For simplicity's sake, the appearance of the weapon is just flavour: whether you throw knives or use a bow, the Action should work the same way. In other words, you should be able to make as many Psi knives as necessary; if you throw one, and the power remains active, then you get another knife for your next attack. Likewise with ammunition: you get what you need. This is why making ranged weapons costs a little more. Psi Weapon is arguably one of the strongest Actions in 2.0. I'm going to pay careful attention to how it's used during testing. Yeah, Stun needs to be clarified. We typically play it such that Stunned characters are essentially KOed and can't take actions or benefit from Reflexive Dodge, etc. This has always seemed harsh to me and I think we could either do away with it, or make it a separate option. Just because Psylocke can stun people, doesn't mean everyone with a Psi Weapon should. ~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 3, 2009 13:52:00 GMT -5
Metamorphosis is up. I know it's long, but it's actually quite simple in practice. Someone like Husk would have at least Metamorphosis 8, with the Omni-morph option, and possibly Rapid Metamorphosis. I've heard of her husking away minor injuries, but I'm not sure that really qualifies as Self Repair. I'm thinking I may have to clarify what Actions/Modifiers can and can't be emulated. Basic: Strength, Agility, Speed, Durability, Energy Recovery, Energy Pool, Claws, Toughness, Animal Senses, Enhanced Vision (some abilities only) Animal Affinity: Flight (via wings), Tail Whip (tails/tentacles), Wall Crawling, Invisibility (camouflage only), Sonar Sense, Omni-morph: Stretching, Bone Weapons, Adamantium Skeleton, Enhanced Vision (most abilities) Not married to that list, but that's the idea. Exactly what does and doesn't belong should really be up to the player and GM, though. ~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 3, 2009 22:52:07 GMT -5
Will be adding Tendril Whip tomorrow.
I'm still debating with myself concerning what to do with Ninja, Thieving, Hunting/Tracking, Black Ops and Private Investigation. They all operate in primarily the same ways, and there is a lot of overlap between them; however, functionally it won't work to fold them all into the same Action (as much as I'd love to).
Perhaps they should just be left as-is.
The one exception is Ninja. I'm definitely breaking that apart and taking out the Close Combat and Concentration. Ninjas can buy those separately like everyone else.
I think that almost wraps up the Actions. There are only a few Modifiers, then its down to equipment and misc rules. Then it's time to upload some setting info. Then I'll be calling for CADs.
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jun 4, 2009 9:15:59 GMT -5
Acrobatics in GeneralOkay, theres allot of thoughts going through me little head about this one, so I'll try and see if i can keep them in line.. Also, might affect how i read all the other things Well I don't see my character running when i place stones into Acrobatics.. Acrobatics is as far as i recal, more or less anything but running.. Its flipping, jumping, rolling, falling, ect.. But I see we have different ways of jumping from rooftop to rooftop in the old system.. As far as I know, he could just place whatever he can into Acrobatics to jump to another rooftop since each stone spend in a movemnt action = 1 defense vs Range attacks and with those he should easily be able to get to the opposite roof.. Also, if someone wanted to jump to the other rooftop, shouldent they just spend stones into Acrobatics to cover the distance? I can't recal any place in 1.0 that you also had to spend stones into speed.. I agree that there should be a limit to how "fast" you can do backflips and jumps and using the Running row for this is a good idea.. Also, "pure" distance jumps should be limited to you're strength so that someone with Acrobatics 10 can't jump 3+ miles.. He would have a easy time scalling a tree and keep his balance, but if he had Strength 1 or even 3 thats just to long a distance.. Now I think about it, I can imagen its the same you are trying to state with speed But as i see Acrobatics: The higher it is, the easier you can climb/swing/flip around.. How fast you can move this way should have a max like webslinging (instead of swinging in webs, you are swinging/flipping with you're body) It allows you to do leaps much easier than a person who just used his Agility/Strength since you have experience with it, but the length you can jump should be limited as noted.. Hehe.. Yea, Im really looking forward to testing the equipment part of the rules.. Weapons might give you +1 and some other advantages, but they are not way as poweful as before and can easily be taken away from you.. Question: What did we do about Captain America's shield, Thors hammer, ect? I mean did we come to a conlusion if it was okay that "super" equipment could be above the normal +1? Thats true.. Then energy drain might actually become underpowered Maybe give it 2x"damage"? Hehe.. Well, for some reason, when people are flying, they are able to carry others easier than their Strength would imply (according to the rules).. How about a characters effective "carrying" strength is higher when flying? They are after all not "lifting" per see.. More holding on to.. Oh.. Dident notice that one.. But its abit silly.. So it would more or less mean if we use you're example, that he could just aswell have spend 6 stones into speed (or 5) and still hit the wall with 6 stones Hey, everything is gona be tested.. I'll be dammed if we are gona let the monkies take over.. But that was how i saw limited manouverbility since he would need room for not just take off's and landings.. He would also need it for actual flight.. You know, flapping his wings which are rather... Large But I could easily imagen that the -1 discount for "fits with main power" could simulate these small disadvantages.. Like Storm who use wind to fly.. If you start to fly then you better hope that theres no important paperwork nearby (or deadly gas like in the books example).. Or if you "flamme on", things can catch fire.. Naah, theres no reason to do that.. The GM I play with handles these kind of "new pups" scenarios just fine without any special disadvantages, flaws or such.. When we tried something new, things might just not do as we wished since it was the first, second or so time we did it Well, theres the house rule in the House Rules guide created by Asmodeus which I personally like.. It really takes into account that a person might have strength 10.. NOTE: Just remembered something more about Charge Object.. Im not sure if its that much of a flaw, but before you can use it, you need something to charge.. But I can't imagen a scenario where there wouldent be something you couldent charge.. Hehe.. Very nice.. Yea, I can see this giving extra challenges.. If you are made of Ice, one of the first things and enemy would think is: "HEY!! He is made of ice.. That means i can melt him *grabs a flamethrower*"... And the problem is if you actually are vulnrable to fire/heat As for extra options, Im sure we will come up with something... UH!! There was one: * Elemental Strength (+? to cost level): When near you're element, you may draw extra power from it and increase you're Strength (or another Ability selected at the time of purchase).. You simply spend a number of stones to increase the ability (upto AN), and it will stay increased for a number of minutes equal to... AN maybe??.. However, a certain mass of the element is required to increase the ability.. Roughly ?? per point of increased ability.. * Elemental Surge (+? to cost level): Like the above option, however, you may increase any ability instead of a single ability.. For example if you had Mastery of Fire 6, you could place 3 into Strength, 2 into speed and 1 into Agility.. So Im looking forward to trying it out.. How about we make a character for me that has all the powers in the game? I saw stun as taking Red stones or similar since there already was a Advantage which Disabled/paralyzed the target.. Interesting.. However, I know that players now set their own Energy Regen and Pool, but Metamorphesis will still cost a good deal of stones to use (especailly if you use it more than once in a row..) Not sure who suggested it, but I like the rules for Metamorphesis in the House Rule Guide which easily fixes that problem.. But as hinted, not sure how much need there is for it in 2.0.. ========================= Well, as I see it, the only thing that really could/should separate Thieving/Hunting/Tracking/Black Ops/Privat Investigation is the specialities you get.. Some of them can be used differently, but Black Ops is not worth a +1.. Its worth just as much as Thieving or Hunting/tracking.. However, Thieving has an Ability bonus, which makes it so much more worth taking.. So I think we should try and remove the bonus unless we change how bonus's work.. And for Ninja, im OK with removing Close and Range combat from it.. BUt will it then still have weapon modifiers ( ) and a ability bonus? Meeeh...... So you you get a movement action which gives you a discount to another movement action?? Also, what about people who can't use it as a movement action? Im pretty sure Lizard don't swing around with his tail However, I like how it works with all that "being fast" thing.. The old version was neat, but could become rather messy.. Also, to be sure its not misunderstood, how about writting: * add AN to initiative when using the tendril/s
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 10:13:32 GMT -5
Aah, too many things to reply to in one post! lol I'll try to hit everything.
Acrobatics As I think I've mentioned elsewhere, I intend to cover the "leaping" rule, and yes, it will be limited by Strength (and the Leaper Modifier). Being REALLY skilled at gymnastics doesn't allow you to jump over tall buildings. ^__^
And yes, that's exactly the same logic that I'm trying to apply to Movement Actions. Being REALLY skilled at gymnastics doesn't allow you to run faster than your Speed; however, it will help you get over obstacles without slowing you down.
That's the whole idea behind Movement Actions. In 1.0, if you were sprinting and wanted to jump over something (say, a gap between rooftops, as we've been discussing), it used to cost you BOTH of your Actions. I say that sucks. With the rule I'm proposing you can run and jump with the same Action.
That's all it does.
Comic book characters such as Wolverine and Daredevil are often depicted as running, jumping, tumbling and attacking all at once. In 1.0 this was sort of impossible. Now it's possible. It's a very, very minor change. Don't worry too much about it. ^__^
Equipment No mundane weapons will give free stones, except perhaps in very rare circumstances. All they'll give is advantages.
But yes, "heroic" equipment such as Cap's shield and Thor's hammer will certainly grant free stones - just not as many as they used to. Having even 3 or 4 free stones is a massive advantage.
Mechanically, buying such equipment won't be terribly different from buying a Close Combat modifier. However, not every character should have an item as important as Cap's shield. Deadpool, for example, uses off-the-shelf stuff. Few, if any of Punisher's guns will have a Modifier, either.
That's the idea, anyway. If it doesn't work, well.. that's why we're testing it. ^__^
Flight That's a really cool idea about having a slight boost to carrying strength while flying. You're right that there's a difference between hefting something heavy over your shoudler or above your head, and just hanging on to a heavy object. Perhaps we can treat people as though their strength is 1 point higher?
As for the Blasting, in the example, Cannonball has a Flight AN of 7. If you look at the D&R chart, it only costs 3 stones to fly at maximum speed. Thus, he's already going as fast as he can for 3 stones; however, if he also wants to smash through stuff harder than brick (Diff 3), he'll have to spend additional stones to be extra unstoppable. Make sense?
"Control issues"/"new pups" disadvantage You're right that GMs can handle new characters pretty easily without a "control issues" disadvantage - I've done sort of the same thing without trouble, and besides, players don't always want to stay inexperienced for very long. However, I think it might be worth testing.. honestly, it depends on whether the mechanic is fun or not. People don't have to take it if they don't want to.
Charge Objects Yeah, at first I wanted to come up with a rule for Charge Objects that required you to have an object to throw.. but honestly, anything will do. A rock, pocket change, a stapler, a fork, whatever is in reach. And just as guns never run out of ammo, neither does Gambit - unless it's dramatically necessary!
Metamorphosis Yeah, Metamorphosis costs a lot of energy to use, but that's the drawback that balances out the versatility. Otherwise, it's often better than buying actual physical powers.
Fortunately, energy pools will be bigger now, so morphing is a much more realistic investment. If you give someone like Husk a Pool of 4, she'll have 20 stones at full strength. Dropping 8 for a full metamorphosis isn't such a big deal - especially since she'll recover part of that at the start of the next panel.
Metamorphosis will always be at its best when you have advanced warning of danger - especially if you know what kind of danger so that you can customize your CAD. Shifting forms in advance saves time and energy.
Thieving/Hunting/Ninja/etc Yeah, there are a lot of problems here, aren't there? For starters, I get how having a high Agility makes it easier to move stealthily, pick a lock or pick someone's pocket. But what about fencing stolen property or racketeering? That doesn't make sense.
I think we should break the list of specialties down into a physical Action and a mental Action. Physical actions can have the stealth stuff, picking locks, safecracking etc, and can come with an Agility bonus.
The mental actions can involve interrogation, assassination, setting up ambushes, following tracks, etc. Not sure about an ability bonus (Intelligence seems the most obvious). Perhaps you can buy an Intelligence ability bonus with a discount? It's hard to say whether this is necessary or not, given that there is absolutely no mechanic for interrogating someone or setting up an ambush. Social Skills doesn't get an ability bonus either, so I'm not sure this would.
Even if we set it up this way, I'm not sure it's really an improvement. lol
Tendril Whip I'm iffy about the movement action status too. Perhaps it's just best offering the discount on web slinging. I think I'll go with that, actually.
Psi Weapon The 1.0 psi weapon specifically states that it stuns for pages equal to damage. This has always seemed massively powerful to me. It also sucks for players facing a psi weapon wielder: being knocked out and taken out of a fight is boring, even if you survive.
Again, I think I might remove it and make it an option instead, or something. I dunno. lol Maybe I'll put up a thread in the main 2.0 folder discussing stun. Seems like most people are sorta ignoring this section now, though.
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Thank you so much for all the input and feedback, Neros! You are awesome! This is just the sort of stuff I've been hoping for.
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Jun 4, 2009 12:56:03 GMT -5
Well, thanks.. Im just doing one of my parts in this project And for the many things to reply to, thats how it is when making new things AcrobaticsBut if I don't worry, what am I then suppose to whine and be confused about? EquipmentOh, I thought weapons and equipment added atleast a +1 modifier.. But I can't see why it wouldent work.. I mean, it can't be that much worse than the original... Can it? FlightFor now, 1 Strength seems fine.. However as said, it all depends on what we decide for "lifting rules/carrying" rules.. Not really.. If all the stones he spends is used to smash the wall, why "split" them at all? Like if he heads toward a brick wall, splits the stones 6 to speed and 1 for.. Duno.. And the wall will get hit with 7 stones.. Not to mention that for each stone spend into a movement action increase you're defense against range combat (according to the old rules).. So in the above example, he would also gain 6 more defense against range combat.. "Control Issues"/"New Pups" DiadvantageI would say its kinda like the Power in Flux Modifier in the House Rule Guide where a character is unaware of his power.. If its only one player takes this, fine.. But if the whole theme of the campainge is "youngsters with growing, unknow powers", then there is no reason to give it to everyone.. So I agree that there is no reason not to have it, if not to test it atleast.. But as you said, no one wants to have character who keeps making ups's all the time.. At some point he will become experienced cHARGE oBJECTDon't forget that you don't need small things.. You could in essence charge anything.. A door, a chair, a car, a shoe, a window... A tank? As long as its a object MetamorphosisAs I said, it might not be needed since people will have much higher energy pools and can decide their own energy recovery rate Thieving/Hunting/NinjaHmm.. Actually, some of the stuff in Thieving can be covered by Social skills.. Fencing stolen proberty=Blackmarket/underworld/Criminal Contacts?? And thats not a mental action.. Its a social action I don't see why thieving or any of the others need a bonus.. I mean, the things that can "detect" these things usually wont have it either.. Like intelligence which usually won't be that high.. I mean the actions that can detect a thief (in 1.0) don't have and agility bonus.. So a thief with thieving 3 agility 3 would be able to hide from someone with black ops 4 or 5.. This way, we also stear around that: "why do i gain a agility bonus for a hold up???" Tendril whipHmm.. maybe a discount to "web slinging" (or what ever he uses) or maybe even Acrobatics.. I can see how extra tentacles, arms, tounges or maybe even a tail could help you move around three tops, fire escapes, keeping you're balance, ect.. Psi weaponsForgot it said that.. But that is greatly overpowered, especially since that advantage costs +3 levels.. But I really think it should be and option... Like if you wanted to make fire weapons instead of psi, why would they then get stun?? Master of ElementAaaw... No comment on the Strength option-thingies? I was rather happy when I was hit by those..
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 17:07:20 GMT -5
EquipmentYeah, if weapons are too weak as just advantages (many weapons, such as knives, will be little more than flavour, really) then we can up the Modifier. But I'd like to try it this way for now. ^__^ FlightConcerning the strength thing, +1 strength would let Johnny Storm (Str 2) carry the Thing. That's a good benchmark. You're still missing the point about blasting. No one can put 6 stones into Flight, all for speed. The resistance for flying at airspeed 7 is 3 stones. Putting 4 stones in does nothing. That's how the D&R chart works. Charge Object"Don't forget that you don't need small things.. You could in essence charge anything.. A door, a chair, a car, a shoe, a window... A tank? As long as its a object "Yeah, I was thinking about that; but really, using Charge Objects to blow up a wall or something shouldn't be any different than using a Force Blast. The flavour is just different. Gambit touches the wall, charges it, and then ducks for cover while it explodes; Cyclops stands back, touches a finger to his visor, and blasts right through it. In theory, the same number of stones should be spent either way, so there isn't much of a need to single out separate rules. Thieving/Hunting/Ninja"Hmm.. Actually, some of the stuff in Thieving can be covered by Social skills.. Fencing stolen proberty=Blackmarket/underworld/Criminal Contacts?? And thats not a mental action.. Its a social action "I'd actually argue that fencing stolen goods is more of a mental action - the logistics of it, anyway. It implies having contacts, knowing the market value, knowing legal loopholes to keep you protected, etc. But yeah, there's still overlap. You'd still have to haggle over prices, etc. There's also a lot of overlap between Business Skills and Social Skills. And Statecraft. And arguably even Wealth. And Leadership. Ugh, they're all overlapping. lol "I don't see why thieving or any of the others need a bonus.. I mean, the things that can "detect" these things usually wont have it either.. Like intelligence which usually won't be that high.. I mean the actions that can detect a thief (in 1.0) don't have and agility bonus.. So a thief with thieving 3 agility 3 would be able to hide from someone with black ops 4 or 5.." I don't think this is always true. I'd let someone use Animal Senses, Enhanced Vision, and/or Concentration use those skills against someone using Thieving to hide (or Hunting to set up an ambush, etc). That's often enough to destroy someone's Thieving stones. As for why they should get a bonus.. Imagine a character with Agility 1 vs a character with Agility 7. Who is going to be the more natural pick pocket? Psi weaponsYeah, I think I'll rewrite Psi Weapon and take out the stun, make it an option instead. Betsy Braddock can bite me. lol Master of ElementWoops, sorry, I missed that section entirely! They seem rather like Metamorphosis.. it seems doable to mimic that mechanic. I think sometime soon I'll set up a new thread in the 2.0 main folder to discuss Mastery options in general. The last one got bogged down with arguments over Create/Manipulate (even I'm not happy with the stuff I picked out of that thread). ~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Jun 4, 2009 18:52:04 GMT -5
Concerning Acrobatics...
Do you realize that Acrobatics 10 doesn't mean you can leap 3+ miles in one leap... It means you can do so by flipping, jumping and rolling in sequence... Acrobatics shouldn't be limited to Strength... I might as well just have Strength and say screw the Acrobatics if that's the case...
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 19:16:14 GMT -5
Where are you getting that, exactly, Dio?
And it isn't that Acrobatics is limited by strength. The distance you can travel in a single jump should be limited by Strength.
Here's a basic rundown on how I plan to handle leaping:
- Compare your Strength to the Leaping row on the D&R chart. For example, if you have a Strength of 3, the maximum distance you can cover in a single jump is 25'. (The world record for the long jump is 29.3 feet for men, 24.67 for women.)
- The Resistance of a jump is double it's Difficulty. A 25' jump has a Difficulty of 3 and a Resistance of 6. The Resistance must be overcome in one go; you cannot overcome the Resistance over multiple Pages.
- You can use stones of Acrobatics to overcome the Resistance of the jump. If you do not have Acrobatics, you can use your Strength, your Agility, or your Speed (if you have a running start).
- The Leaper modifier can help you meet jumping Difficulties and overcome Resistance.
That doesn't seem so bad, does it? Remember, these are rules for making single leaps of a great distance, such as between buildings, across a chasm, or over a river, etc.
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Jun 4, 2009 19:21:50 GMT -5
The way you're talking, I'm better off with just a high strength... Since honestly there isn't rules in the core books for any sort of resistance for Jumps, and that's purely a house rule and as far as I'm concerned a poorly written one at that (I keep trying to tell Neros that, but for some reason he has no idea what I'm getting at)
This is comic books, where Captain America a Peak Human can make 100 foot leaps without worrying... and your saying that he can't in your world? I've seen the man in comicbooks leap from one side of a main street to another (rooftop to rooftop) in one shot... And I don't know if you've ever been to NYC, but I used to live there, that's a LONG leap.
So saying that a Single Leap is limited to your Strength is just plain silly.
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Post by takewithfood on Jun 4, 2009 19:31:58 GMT -5
Dio, you say "there isn't any rules in the core books for any sort of resistance for Jumps" as though we're not writing the rules as we speak. ^__^
I'm proposing the rules above. If you take a look at them in practice you ARE NOT better off with "just a high strength". Strength only helps you meet the difficulty; it isn't enough on it's own to overcome all the resistance. Having Acrobatics is key to getting the most out of your jump.
Here's an example you should have tried yourself before commenting:
Let's say Daredevil has Str of 3. He also has Agility 4 and Acrobatics 4 with an Agility bonus. He wants to make a really big leap for some reason, so he compares his Strength with the D&R chart. The maximum Difficulty he can meet is 3, for a max of 25 feet. Super.
Now, the Resistance is 6. If he didn't have any Acrobatics, the best he could do is put 4 stones into Agility, and that isn't enough to clear the jump (at best it would be enough for a 10' leap). Fortunately, he is a talented acrobat and can use his skills and training to get the most out of his strength. He puts 8 stones into Acrobatics: 6 to cover the resistance, and 2 to make it look awesome because a guy's gotta pick up chicks somehow.
So no, you aren't better off with just a high Str. With this rule system you will NEVER leap to your maximum potential without some training, and that is why it's awesome.
BTW, I'll be using a similar rule for breaking things, by the way. Breaking things happens a lot. ^__^ The basic rule is, I don't care how many stones Cyclops can put into Close Combat - he isn't punching his bare fist through a steel wall. Breaking DCs are overcome with Strength (and potentially appropriate modifiers) when using brute force.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Jun 4, 2009 19:37:35 GMT -5
Well! If Cyclops can't punch through steel, I refuse to support these rules!!!
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