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Post by Neros on Aug 23, 2006 14:58:39 GMT -5
Im working on a character that have inventing and a weak Power Armor, but then comes my question, how do i threat upgrading?
Lets say he wants to improve its Strength from 4 to 6, would he then take the whole 6 as aspect stones? or will he just have to use 2 as aspect stones?
The same goes for everything els about the armor... How does he improve them?
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Post by stogoe on Aug 23, 2006 19:59:11 GMT -5
in the Avengers book, a bonus to an ability (my armor gives +6 to my normal Str), rather than just "my armor has Str 6", that's a +3 level adjustment.
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Post by Beacon on Aug 23, 2006 20:24:22 GMT -5
While I’ll be the first to admit I don’t really “get” PA, I’d imagine that improving PA functions would follow the same logic as any other use of the invention action. Maybe the creation costs would be based around the PA cost rather than the normal cost. I could see where the stones that have already been spent on the preexisting device wouldn’t necessarily figure into the time it will take to improve it.
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Post by Ricochet on Aug 24, 2006 2:14:15 GMT -5
So your aspect is 6, but because you already have 4 you want to pay only 2? I had a player who wanted that, I'd say you still have to pay for the whole aspect.
You already got inventing at a discount, and your armor is ''Existing tech you know''. I don't think the GM wants to make it that easy for you.
... This doesn't by chance have anything to do with Ultimate Hidden Wars, does it?
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Post by Neros on Aug 24, 2006 10:10:32 GMT -5
Oooh no, no... no, no, no... no, no....... no........ Yes..... But i was just wondering how it would be done... And i think i just thought about something that might work.
1* Total aspect stones (in the exampel from 4 to 6, it would be 6).
2* Invetion Factor + Advantages + Usage Factor = Total Invetion Factor
3* Multiply Total Invetion Factor with Total Aspect Stones.
4* Divide this total result with Intelligence + Invetion = Total Number of days needed to spend.
5* Total number of days needed - Difference in the changes (like in the exampel, 2)
I agree that the first thing i said, was way to cheap. But this seems fair to me. But then the GM might not...
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Post by Beacon on Aug 24, 2006 10:43:05 GMT -5
So your aspect is 6, but because you already have 4 you want to pay only 2? In terms of time, yeah. The two white stones spent on an aspect of four really should go toward the four white stones spent on an aspect of six. It stands to reason that improving an existing technology would generally be less time-consuming than building something from scratch. Well if you enhance the actual character’s abilities with creation/challenge stones you only pay the difference between the old cost and the new one. I’m not really sure why it’d be different with your technology. It already takes an extremely long time to invent things. Not penalizing people for the effort they’ve already put into their inventions makes perfect sense to me. It will still take long enough that it won’t be game breaking. |
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Post by Neros on Sept 2, 2006 16:45:26 GMT -5
A thing i just thought about when working on a character. When upgrading a armor (or any invention even), you still have to consider the rest of the functions in it.
You have to be carefull that the new Jet boosters in the legs dont interfere with the movement in them... Or if it was increasing one of the armors physical abilities, it would surely require that the whole armor was seperated so that the proper hydralics (or whatever is being inserted) is placed in each joint, Muscle fibe, ect...
So i could actually imagen that they would be penalized on how much work the upgrade would require... Maybe from +1 to +3 to the Invention Factor.
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Post by Scriptus on Sept 4, 2006 0:26:36 GMT -5
maybe that's why Tony Stark just keeps making more suits of armor instead of upgrading one suit.
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Post by powerfull on Sept 4, 2006 16:34:03 GMT -5
Well, I don't think tony stark actually invented the iron man armor. After all, it has a toughness of 7, with no 2x and no AP. That's an MN of 10. It has a cost of 15 white stones. Acording to invention, no single aspect of your invention can have a cost of more than half your invention AN. That's 7 for our friend tony, not 15. So how did he came by with it? An educated guess of mine is that it was given to him by aliens.
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Post by pgholland on Sept 4, 2006 16:41:02 GMT -5
No i always thought with invention it was the Action Number plus modifiers not cost level or else noone could have invented iron man's armour ever
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Post by powerfull on Sept 4, 2006 16:51:50 GMT -5
No, it says clearly in page 52 that the maximum number of stones a single aspect can have is one half the total of of your intelligence number and your Invention action number. So I'll stick with my alien advanced civilization theory. Or perhaps it was given to him by the celestials them selves!  |
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Post by pgholland on Sept 4, 2006 17:13:20 GMT -5
yeah when it says stones it means stoens of Action number, read the example.
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Post by powerfull on Sept 4, 2006 17:25:56 GMT -5
Oh yea right, how convinient, makes me wonder why big R didn't make a phoenix force belt instead of a force field/flight belt.  I think I just found a new rule for the marvel total realism thread.  |
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Post by Ricochet on Sept 5, 2006 4:25:30 GMT -5
Oh yea right, how convenient, makes me wonder why big R didn't make a phoenix force belt instead of a force field/flight belt. I think I just found a new rule for the marvel total realism thread. Because: 1. It's never been done. That means your Base Invention Factor is multiplied by 10 already. Don't forget about the Usage Factor, Permanent. Now it's multiplied by 16. 2. Now that would be really cheap yes. You only have to pass one more test... The GM. He uses his authority to give a more reasonable Total Invention Factor to your belt and adds 13 for a total of 29. 6x29=174. Fudge, that's still dirt cheap. Okay, you win. Oh, but the example in the book isn't entirely correct too. I think the Others Benefit From Powers is a bit to much (It's flight and force field, come on! They already have others benefit from power!) and flight and the force field should be treated as 2 inventions not 1. Maybe I can help with that too. Flight: MN6 + 2 for 2 strength. Existing tech he knows x4, usage permanent +6, self powered +3. (6+2)x(4+6+3)=104 Force Field: MN6. Existing tech he knows x4, usage permanent +6, self powered +3. (6)x(4+6+3)=78 104+78+182 Splitting inventions doesn't really make any difference in the example, but it would if you'd invent more intricate inventions (Powered Armor and Stuff). However, scrapping the Others Benefit option, saves you 42 stones. |
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Post by pgholland on Sept 5, 2006 5:11:17 GMT -5
I think you'll find that the reason he didn't invent a Phoenix Force belt firstly was because its not in that book, and secondly because it would be next to impossible for him to get a being of that power to stay in his invention- remember Phoenix Force comes from a living being always so turning it into a technological invention would be practically impossible. Plus it's like a mastery, i'd almost certainly rule that you couldn't put a mastery into an invention unless you had an amzing premise because a mastery is just too difficult to 'invent' making things tougher, flyier or force fieldier is child's play compared to that.
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