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Post by piratespice on Sept 17, 2003 14:43:43 GMT -5
I really dislike that entire martial art styles are listed as Specialties for Close Combat. They're too broad. There is never a time when they aren't used. Specialties, in my mind, should be specific areas of expertise that one would try to make use of, but aren't always available to confront every situation with. So here's my take on handling martial arts with Close Combat:
Specialties that encompass an entire style of martial arts are too powerful. If you want a character that is proficient in a particular martial arts style, take Specialties reflecting maneuvers that style is known for. For example, a practitioner of aikido would take Specialties in things like Grappling, Throws, Joint Locks, or Redirection. It is important to note that most martial arts are universal; they have techniques and maneuvers for just about any combat situation. This is the concept behind “Multi-Styles,” and precisely why they don’t make good Specialties. Here are some more examples of constructing martial arts with Specialties:
Aikido: Grappling, Throws, Joint Locks, Redirection, Sidestep
Capoera: Kicking, Jumping, Leg Locks
Karate: Kicking, Blocking, Punching
Kendo: Sword, Parry, Dodging
Kung-fu (basic): Punching, Kicking, Falling, Grappling, Joint Locks, Blocking, Redirection, various weapons
Kung-fu (Hung Gar): Hard Strikes, Breaks, Body Hardening
Kung-fu (Mantis): Breaks, Joint Locks, Eye-Gouge, Blocking
Kung-fu (Drunken Style): Balance, Dodging, Sudden Strikes, Misdirection
Kung-fu (Chi-Gong): Atemi (Nerve Strikes)
Ninjutsu: Dirty Tricks, Kicking, Sword, Sai
Sumo: Grappling, Throws, Holds, Stamina
Wrestling (Olympic): Grappling, Holds, Single Combat
Wrestling ("Professional"): Grappling, Dirty Tricks, Jumping, Showmanship, Improvised Weapons (i.e. folding chairs, championship belts, audience members, etc.)
These are just some example using what knowledge I have of martial arts. I cannot guarantee the accuracy of each style above, but I think the general thinking is conveyed.
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Post by beyonder on Sept 18, 2003 7:53:51 GMT -5
Good idea, Pirate (or do you prefer Mr. Spice?). May I guess that you referred to one or more of the following RPG sources?: DC Universe, Marvel Super-Heroes (some of the house rules more commonly found online .... in fact, were you the author of these?), aaaand maye the old (1st ed.) Oriental Adventures? That's not a criticism, BTW. Referencing other people's good ideas in outside material is an excellent method for improving one's game, assuming that that's what you did. Regardless, my only criticism is that you didn't come up with this BEFORE my game began! Maybe I can still use it, somehow ....
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Post by piratespice on Sept 18, 2003 16:08:18 GMT -5
Pirate...Mr. Spice...as you prefer.  I didn't really reference anything specific. I've seen this type of thing some in other games, though, so I can't claim complete originality. It really just spawned out of my frustration with the existing Close Combat specialties that encompass entire fighting styles. |
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Post by i3ullseye on Sept 20, 2003 0:24:56 GMT -5
Well, the old Marvel game kept it vague. And the comics themselves do so also. I think it is more a marvel universe flavor thing, martial arts has never been really detailed.
Now you COULD create a set of martial arts as grouped modifiers. Each art has a set name, and each maneuver woudl be a certainl +CL, and only certain arts coudl have certain maneuvers. This woudl give you some added detail, and also give the player more control on how the art and character is built and played.
The basic arts coudl have some inherent advantages. But if you look, Ninjutsu was enough to warrant its own action. Nothing says some others might not end up this way also. Guess we will have to wait for an official Iron Fist or Shang Chi write up to see if they are just realy good at close combat or not.
But the safe money is on Close Combat and good modifiers.
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Post by piratespice on Sept 20, 2003 11:40:07 GMT -5
Well, the old Marvel game kept it vague. And the comics themselves do so also. I think it is more a marvel universe flavor thing, martial arts has never been really detailed. Yes, but in the old Marvel game, each martial art did something specific. They didn't apply to each and every close combat attack you made. The current specialties easily could. If you wanted to get that detailed with martial arts, go for it. I think the specialty system works just fine for constructing martial arts. Let's be clear...ninjutsu didn't warrent its own Action, Ninja did. The Ninja Action encompasses much more than a fighting style. As for the combat aspect of it, the approach to Specialties that I suggest above still works as Specialties for Ninja. I've considered other combo-Actions like Ninja (Shameless Plug: ...or my Cop Action), but all of them that I've thought of are just Close Combat with another name. The only ones I can think of that might encompass more that combat would be Deathstrike's "Samurai" Action or something like "Monk" for Iron Fist or Shang-Chi. |
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Post by i3ullseye on Sept 21, 2003 14:01:44 GMT -5
No, lets be even more clear....
In America they try to give you spoon fed cinema crap, and make a 'fighting style' named Ninja. But NINJA was a name for an entire class of people, and a whole life style. Ninjutsu covers all aspects of life. Ninja and Ninjutsu can not be seperated. So if you truly know Ninpo Taijutsu... yu will also learn disguise, acting, how to farm, dancing, etc... etc....
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Post by piratespice on Sept 21, 2003 14:54:40 GMT -5
That may be the historical definition (and even that is in question...there are about a bajillion versions of what the historical "ninja" truly were), but it isn't the modern definition. Language (and practice) evolved to mean that ninjutsu is a fighting style. Bravo to whomever practices all aspects of the ninja way, but there are plenty of people in the modern day that study ninjutsu as a fighting style.
To be the most clear, we are talking about fighting styles here. The thread is called "Martial Art Styles." I was merely responding to this comment: "But if you look, Ninjutsu was enough to warrant its own action." I was pointing out that the Ninja Action (similar to your historical ninja) encompasses much more than a fighting style. A character who learns ninjutsu under Close Combat would merely be learning the martial aspects of ninjutsu...nothing else.
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Post by beyonder on Sept 24, 2003 8:31:32 GMT -5
No, lets be even more clear.... In America they try to give you spoon fed cinema crap, and make a 'fighting style' named Ninja. A little cranky today, i3ullseye? Calm down, dude. For one thing, this is so not the real world that we're talking about here. It's a Marvel Comics game! Since when has Ninjitsu been portrayed accurately in the comics? Sure, it's "cinema crap". So is about 95% of Marvel Comics: it's brightly-colored images hopped up on sugar. Heck, most comics still pluralise "Ninja" as "Ninjas". Is this annoying to you and me and probably Pirate Spice, who know that there's no such word? Sure. Should that level of accuracy in any way impinge on this discussion? I don't see why. |
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Post by gothfather on Feb 11, 2004 7:48:12 GMT -5
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Post by ArtOfMagic on Feb 11, 2004 11:51:43 GMT -5
No, lets be even more clear.... In America they try to give you spoon fed cinema crap, and make a 'fighting style' named Ninja. But NINJA was a name for an entire class of people, and a whole life style. Ninjutsu covers all aspects of life. Ninja and Ninjutsu can not be seperated. So if you truly know Ninpo Taijutsu... yu will also learn disguise, acting, how to farm, dancing, etc... etc.... What the dell is wrong with me? I have not learned disquise, acting, how to farm or even Dance, well that I did learn but not in Dojo. Taijutsu in modern world only teaches taijutsu. But is it so in Marver Universe, it's up to GM. But I spend 3 years of my life for Ninjutsu and I only learned combat skills, martial arts. Pirate - Basic idea of Ninjutsu is that there is not big difference between hand and a knife, a bo or a katana. In the end, you fight quite the same using a sword, a hand, a pen, a gusari gama. Ninjutsu weapon groups are M.A. weapons, unarmed, improvised weapons. Kendo practitioners should be better with a sword than ninjas, but ninjas are better with anything else and without. |
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Post by piratespice on Feb 12, 2004 9:17:15 GMT -5
Pirate - Basic idea of Ninjutsu is that there is not big difference between hand and a knife, a bo or a katana. In the end, you fight quite the same using a sword, a hand, a pen, a gusari gama. And the beautiful thing is, you can easily construct it that way with my system just by taking the appropriate specialties. |
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Post by i3ullseye on Feb 12, 2004 19:03:22 GMT -5
Lady Deathstrike has a specialty action also... it is called Samurai. But both Samurai and Ninja are example sof combat styles that were WAY more than just ways to fight. When you really get down to it fighting is fighting, and a speciality bonus is really more than enough to flavor any specific fighting styles.
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Post by ArtOfMagic on Feb 17, 2004 2:55:32 GMT -5
And the beautiful thing is, you can easily construct it that way with my system just by taking the appropriate specialties. No ! the beautyful thing is ... ME!!! ;D |
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