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Post by thedragonmaster on May 2, 2007 10:00:57 GMT -5
I'd say that magical fire would depend on how it is described. If it is fire generated by magic, then it is still fire and those immune to fire would be fine. However if it is magical energy that looks like flames, then it does damage unless they are protected from magic. Basically think of what it is, rather than what made it. Don't know if I explained that well, if not could someone else take a stab at it?
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Post by Kaimontfendo on May 2, 2007 19:48:27 GMT -5
From your description, WildKnight, it sounds as though water and acid are energy. Water is one of the elements mentioned in the main guide, and acid doesn't inflict damage because of the force behind it. But my common sense tells me that they're physical.
At the moment, I'm considering saying that cold cannot be absorbed, but is still negated by energy defense. I'm also considering classifying cold blasts, darkness, and energy drain as negatives, allowing them all to be negated by "Negative Defense." It's a weird concept, and I really doubt it'll ever get more than just a mention, but there it is anyway.
As for Magical Fire, I'd say it always counts as magic. No ifs ands or buts. Because really, Magical Defense and Immunity are too expensive to be negated by a Master of Magic describing their attack differently.
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Post by malice on May 2, 2007 19:57:14 GMT -5
I'd call water physical, acid probably energy, since chemical reactions revolve around energy, and acid corrosion is a chemical reaction.
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Post by Kaimontfendo on May 2, 2007 20:27:57 GMT -5
That is a good point, Malice. One I hadn't considered.
However, I think I'd still say it's physical. The damage inflicted by a club is caused by Kinetic Energy, but counting it as Physical keeps Energy Defense and Immunity from being overly powerful.
Basically, I'd say anything flashy, like electricity, fire, lasers, or radiation bolts is probably energy. (Of course, this is keeping in mind that microwave radiation and sonic blasts are visible in comics.) If it's flashy, but not magic or mental, it's energy. If it's anything else, it's Physical.
Yes, I am waiting for someone to find a glaring flaw in that.
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Post by malice on May 2, 2007 20:34:46 GMT -5
That is a good point, Malice. One I hadn't considered. However, I think I'd still say it's physical. The damage inflicted by a club is caused by Kinetic Energy, but counting it as Physical keeps Energy Defense and Immunity from being overly powerful. Basically, I'd say anything flashy, like electricity, fire, lasers, or radiation bolts is probably energy. (Of course, this is keeping in mind that microwave radiation and sonic blasts are visible in comics.) If it's flashy, but not magic or mental, it's energy. If it's anything else, it's Physical. Yes, I am waiting for someone to find a glaring flaw in that. There isn't a glaring flaw, energy rules the world of physics and every other science. I've just used the following in the past: An attack is physical if it requires a physical component to be damaging (You can look for loopholes in this and you'll find them, but it works for a lot of stuff and the rest I just judge at the time) An attack isn't always just one thing, I have in the past allowed half the stones of damage to be physical and the other half to be energy.
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Post by terramax on Jul 11, 2007 7:26:07 GMT -5
Sorry for joining a conversation two months late. I work in acid etch (meaning I handle acid on a daily basis). Personally, I would call it a physical attack. I know it is based on a chemical reaction and chemical reations often revolve around energy, but it isn't technically energy. Energy typically does not consist of any kind of matter (heat, electricity, light, sound, radio waves, etc.) while acid is definitely a physical substance consisting of matter. It isn't the result of an impact which is what I believe Physical Immunity was meant for, but it does physical damage to the body. In the end, certain things are best left to GM discretion because they don't actually fit into any proper categories (acid, cold, dark).
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Post by malice on Jul 11, 2007 14:28:05 GMT -5
Acid may be one of those things I count half physical and half energy. I'll admit it's one of the toughest to explain.
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Post by terramax on Jul 11, 2007 14:34:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I would agree with that. The big danger with acid is its continued effect. It is the one "element"(?) that doesn't hit and stop. Acid never stops until it has been properly and thoroughly diluted by water or covered by certain substances that stop the acidity (alkalyne powders).
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Post by malice on Jul 11, 2007 14:53:01 GMT -5
Yeah, but that's up to the designer of the attack to simulate. I added a duration onto a character's acid breath.
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Post by terramax on Jul 11, 2007 15:03:06 GMT -5
Another of the faults of the MURPG system. In the case of any other element, you would definitely have to spend stones into duration. After all, fire has to be maintained, right? As does any other element to have any effect. Acid is in a league of its own, which is why it is so dangerous. Acid doesn't need to be maintained. Once it touches the skin, it doesn't come off. It just continues to burn anything it touches untill it is sufficiently dilluted. Now don't get me wrong. I don't think it just be more powerful than any other element because it never stops burning and yet is the same cost as everything else. I think acid deserves a bump up in the added cost levels. I think it should not be required to be maintained by stones of effort. I realise that is somewhat overpowering, but that is the purpose of the boost in cost. Still a very deadly element though.
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Jul 11, 2007 23:20:09 GMT -5
To make an acid blast, I'd suggest adding a made-up "duration effect" advantage to an ordinary force blast. As for how it would work, I'd suggest that it lasts for a number of panels equal to the number of stones spent.
For example, Acidic Arthur attacks Billy with a 5-stone acid blast. Billy's defense is 3, so Billy takes 2 stones of damage for each of the next five panels.
Alright. that's probably too nasty. Well, I tried. While we're on the subject of acidic attacks, I'd like to suggest a look at the Corrosive Touch action in the Spidey Guide. I think it's a tad expensive, especially adding the Poisonous Attack option, but the idea is very solid. On the other hand, it allows you to take down just about anyone without continuing to spend energy. If you can get a good hit on the Hulk, that's all you'd need. Sure you'll likely get clobbered (sorry, wrong Marvel character), but if you can take down the Hulk, it's worth it.
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Post by malice on Jul 11, 2007 23:49:02 GMT -5
Yeah the acid-blast I made had a duration of 2 (10 panels!) and I was justifiably concerned at its power. Perhaps a better way of doing it would be duration (in panels) = amount of stones that got through defense. So that 5 stone attack Acidic Arthur hit Billy with would last 2 panels (5 - Billy's 3 defense = 2). The continuous corrosion is easier for me to pin down than the actual question of whether it's physical or energy though.
EDIT: Minor breakthrough in defining acid: The attack is definitely physical but the damage appears to be energy.
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Post by thanos on Jul 12, 2007 0:38:18 GMT -5
I view most acid as a physical attack, as it requires something to interact with (skin, hair, etc). A PysInv character would ignore most acid because his body would be immune to the acid using it as a possible source of reactive chemicals. On the other hand a there are several acidic reactions that burn at a very high tempature (3000 degrees) which if thrown on a PysInv character would be considered and energy attack ;-)
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Post by terramax on Jul 12, 2007 6:46:10 GMT -5
I really like that last example for duration. It give it the umph of acid without it being way overpowered. It still deserves an extra cost, but it's workable.
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