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Post by Rinjo on May 5, 2007 22:07:46 GMT -5
I have a question. Under telepathy when you choose a line such as:
-Project Thoughts/Control Others (+2)
In the description it says "Broadcast +1"
Does this mean that if I want to be able to broadcast I must buy this as a +3? Or does this mean I must pay one extra stone to broadcast when using the power?
And does broadcast mean what I think it does? If I Use Control others at 9 stones and pay to it then broadcasts to everyone within range?
Can I pick and choose or does it blanket the area? Thanks in advance!
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Post by Neros on May 6, 2007 2:38:34 GMT -5
I see broadcast as the name implies, that you broadcast the power (which would mean area effect). However, i dont think it applies to Control others (or does it??). Cause Control others is allready powerful as it is, and allowing a Area Effect for mearly +1 seems to cheap (Also, Broadcast Thoughts sounds better).
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Post by Rinjo on May 6, 2007 2:47:03 GMT -5
It does... it is listed for Control others and for illusions... and a few others I think
My question is: does that +1 mean If I want that option I pay +1 for it, or does it mean I pay +1 stone when using it?
Danke!!!
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Post by WildKnight on May 6, 2007 7:38:17 GMT -5
To be honest, nobody, probably including the people that wrote the book, knows what it means. I know Im probably going to get flamed for this, but MURPG is one of the worst-written RPG core books ever. I sometimes really think it was written by a pair of monkeys who were given typewriters, red bull, and some old issues of "What If" and locked in a room for a month.
Everything in this book is poorly defined. The pricing of just about everything is really questionable... In their rush to make the system flexible enough to cover the entire variety of possibilities represented by Marvel Comics, they created something almost totally indecipherable.
Have you ever taken the powers Metamorphosis and Blasting side-by-side? Blasting comes with x2 damage AND a full powered Force Field at AN +2. Meanwhile, for AN +6 you can get Metamorphosis, which gives you.... the ability to get some Toughness, some Claws, maybe a pair of wings... Sure its flexible, but Blasting turns you into a flying battering ram with tremendous damage thats almost impossible to harm... at a MUCH cheaper rate.
Basically what I'm getting at is... dont worry about the "official" explanation. If you're the GM, make a call. If you're not, find out what your GMs call is.
Personally (and I in no way claim that this is the way they "intended" it to work) I would say that the +1 is a stone cost to broadcast, but it doesn't work with Control, only Project Thoughts (and Illusions, etc). While we've never seen anybody in the comics take over the minds of multiple opponents, we have seen that it appears to be pretty easy to send out your thoughts to all of your allies at once, or even to your enemies, etc.
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Post by t0mahawk on May 6, 2007 9:17:30 GMT -5
No flaming from me. The writing of the game is poor. It's a shame they didn't spend more time on playtesting and balancing, but from the looks of things, initial sales must have been poor so they charged three books out and canned the game, rather than the original game and TSR saturating the market with all sorts of products, modules, sourcebooks, ultimate powers, advanced version etc.
Still, this forum proves that a) the game can work because it's the storytelling and players that matter more than the game system and b) we can work round crappy powers and rules by simply excluding them.
I've often considered doing a rewrite of the game by recosting the powers, streamlining a few bits and pieces etc. The core mechanic is sound though - no dice, if you have energy you can do something, if you haven't you can't. Where it falls down is the spiralling damage/energy draining thing. Once you get injured it's a matter of time before you are down, there are no 'lucky breaks' unless you get one handed out for quality play by an appreciative GM.
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Post by WildKnight on May 6, 2007 9:26:47 GMT -5
I wouldnt be here if I didnt agree with you. The system is solid, I enjoy it table top and so far, it is the single best system I've ever seen for play-by-post games (except maybe for free form, but that requires ALOT of trust between player and GM)
I just wish that there weren't so many people dead set against any kind of revision of the details, when so many of them are so clearly just plain bad
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Post by Rinjo on May 6, 2007 10:59:36 GMT -5
The only example I think I have seen of a character controlling multiple characters at once is in the X-men movie where Xavier took over both Toad and Sabertooth... hmmm... But was that a broadcast really? Probably not... I mean... if you were a level 12 telepath (counting intelligence bonus...) you could throw 11 stones into control others and drop 1 into broadcast... the range on that would be phenominal... you would have an army... FOr a good character with Morals no problem. Most charcters have enough aprehension about reading thoughts let alone mobilizing a bunch of lemmings and using them as fodder... but for a badguy... unstopable... Anyway... then you get into maintaining it... they say 1 stone per panel to maintain... if youa re controlling a mall full of people... I suppose I will have to ask the DM... if one ever picks me up... Wait I have an example of braodcast! Remember when Xavier froze the whole mall in the movie? When Pyro was going to burn those boys? That was definitely what I am describing... Thanks for the info all!!!
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Post by WildKnight on May 6, 2007 11:06:58 GMT -5
Yes, but for me the movies have as much relevance to the actual X-Men as The Ultimates have to The Avengers. Some of the names are the same, but its an entirely different universe where everything, down to the natural laws the world follows (ie physics) are different.
As far as a GM picking you up... (shameless plug coming online) if you're interested in a little low powered action, Im recruiting for a game in the general discussion board right now.
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Post by malice on May 6, 2007 11:53:30 GMT -5
I agree the movies aren't the place to look for these types of things. Actually if you'll recall the second film (I think it was the second one) Xavier takes over EVERYONE IN THE MUSEUM! He takes them over (looked like paralysis, but they were controlled) and wiped their memories.
ALso there is a place in the comic books where Xavier takes over all of Multiple Man's multiples. Telepathy IS that powerful, but I'm pretty sure he can't have had them all doing complex things.
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Post by WildKnight on May 6, 2007 12:02:22 GMT -5
Bad example... Multiple Man has been stated repeatedly to actually have only one mind, its just not located solely in the actual physical brain of the "original" (of which theres actually no such thing, since the "original" can die and a duplicate can take over being him). Professor Xavier has stated very plainly that Multiple Man is vulnerable specifically because 200 of him is just as easy to manipulate as 1 of him.
Nowhere in the comics do we see a Telepath (short of cosmic scale characters) en masse taking over a multitude of people. As I've previously pointed out, if Telepathy were remotely that powerful in the comics, things would be much different. As it stands, whenever even one character is taken over by a Telepath, theres an internal mental struggle that almost always ends with the original "owner" of the body reasserting him or herself. Jean Grey could have easily stopped any number of situations if she were able to freeze in place, much less take actual control over, other characters with such a minimal fraction of her power.
Now, with certain "boosts"... i.e. hypnotism or machines (that take time to do their work) we've seen some real nasty stuff done via Telepathy like powers. But not on the battlefield.
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Post by malice on May 6, 2007 12:11:15 GMT -5
I thought Multiple Man's many minds were "weakened" by having so many. Oh well. My point is that if a telepath has the AN and the energy, they can eventually control a lot of people.
Btw, as for never getting control back of one's own mind if the telepath doesn't allow it, I don't allow that in my games. The victim slowing gains sit mods to their mental defense the longer they're controlled, and will eventually break free. Also as you may have deduced, in my games if a victim's mental defense was beaten the normal way or ignored via sit mods or the victim being distracted/asleep/completely unaware, then it's full value is soon after regained and if it beats the amount of stones spend to gain control, control is severed. That's how it worked in the comic books and there's means to do it in this game.
Telepaths, people with high strength & energy, or telekinesis, can still gain control of you for just long enough to make you blow your own brains out, but that's just a fact everyone must face.
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Post by WildKnight on May 6, 2007 12:17:24 GMT -5
Thats respectable, but I dont think its a fair analysis of what we see in the comics. Sinister is a Telepath. If he could have simply made Scott Summers blow his brains out, I think we'd be short a couple of Summers brothers at this point.
Dont get me wrong, I think Telepathy should be allowed to be useful. I just dont think it should be allowed to dominate the game for a cost of AN +2 (because, for all that we've been discussing, you only need that one option).
My system is actually fairly similar to yours, though I'm working on changing it right now with Thanos' suggestion that the Telepath should be paying for the actions taken by those they dominate.
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Post by malice on May 6, 2007 12:21:07 GMT -5
Actually Sinister could have made Scott blow his own brains out, it's just lucky for Mr. Summers that Nathaniel Essex had a professional interest in his survival.
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Post by WildKnight on May 6, 2007 12:54:50 GMT -5
Musta missed that issue (not surprising given that I pretty much gave up on the mainstream comics back when Spider-Man turned out to be a clone).
In X-Factor Sinister tried to mesmerize Cyclops into blasting Iceman and not only did he not do it, he shot Sinister instead.
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Post by malice on May 6, 2007 13:07:21 GMT -5
I was referring to the fact that Sinister has long had an interest in getting the child of Cyclops and Jean Grey. I was just saying that he wouldn't have outright killed Cyclops if he had the chance because of that interest. Also, have you checked out the Controlling Armies rules presented in the Spidey guide as a basis for how telepathy should work? It has the controller spending energy for their army's acitons and targets.
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