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Post by Neros on Dec 21, 2005 15:33:33 GMT -5
hmm... It seems like overpower, but yes.... The person inside the shield wont really be able to do anything els but hold the shield... But that might be enough if you have teammates around to help out... But a higher cost would be a good idea...
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Post by rogueborg on Aug 16, 2006 12:43:46 GMT -5
Imagine a fight between Sue Storm and the Hulk if the Hulk is trying to batter down the field. Panel 1: Hulk attacks for 13, Sue puts 6 into FF. Her forcefield soaks 6, takes 7 and drops to 3. Panel 2: Hulk attacks for 14, Sue puts 6 more into FF. Her forcefield soaks 9, takes 5 and drops to 7. Panel 3: Hulk attacks for 14, Sue puts 3 more into FF. Her forcefield soaks 10, takes 4 and drops to 8. Panel 4: A tired Hulk can only attack for 10, Sue puts 3 more into FF. Her forcefield soaks 11, and sits at 11. Panel 5: Hulk rests? Sue puts 1 more into FF and recovers 2. Her forcefield sits at 12. From this point, the Hulk can't get through the field. At most he could deliver a 21 stone attack, which would knock 3 stones off the field and Sue could put them back with her regeneration for the round. Since the Hulk can't do 21 stones every panel, but Sue can do 3, she'll be able to *rest* and regenerate stones once she has the field up while the Hulk will just pound himself into exhaustion trying to get through. Sue isn't capable of anything like that under the old system. Faced with a fully irrate Hulk, her forcefield would stop 12 of the 21 and she'd get smeared across the pavement unless she used some other power. The problem here is there are clear examples of the Hulk getting thru Sue's force field in the comics. In Fantastic Four #167 the Hulk pounds away on Sue's field eventually "wearing" her down mentally forcing her field to drop, that should represent an attack on durability. Here, with this new example, there's no way for Hulk to get through so I don't think it's realistic. The problem I see with the FF rules are if stones get through the force field someone's taking damage and it just doesn't happen that way. A force field is a barrier, partial damage just doesn't get through until the field drops. If there is precedent for the Hulk being able to bash his way thru Sue's FF by wearing her down mentally, then a more accurate way to portray a force field is, when using the original force field rules, any stones of damage that exceed the fields strength should attack durability, once durability is gone that person is "worn out" causing the field to drop. Just my two cents]
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Post by piratespice on Aug 16, 2006 18:06:39 GMT -5
The problem here is there are clear examples of the Hulk getting thru Sue's force field in the comics. I'm sure we could scour the books for dozens of examples of how the system doesn't back up what some writer or another wrote in a comic. But we have to have some sort of rules for this to be a game. The above examples also don't take into account the rule that covers this: Situational Modifiers. Sue might get extra stones for protecting a loved one. Hulk might get extra stones for being especially angry, or height advantage, or who-knows-what. But "it didn't happen that way in this comic" seldom works as a justification unless you can show a repeated pattern of overwhelmingly one-sided situations. No, if its wearing her down mentally, it should be an attack on Intelligence. But that's not what Hulk is doing. He's wearing down the force field, and she's wearing herself out trying to maintain it. That's already covered with the expenditure of Energy stones. Bear in mind that the above example uses Sue Storm's stats as designed for the old Force Field rules. I've never really considered if she'd need to be tweaked for my variant.
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Post by cinnamon on Aug 17, 2006 12:29:08 GMT -5
If the force field was on a ration of 1:1 the fight between Sue Storm and the Hulk would be as follow. If we take the same number. Panel 1: Hulk attacks for 13, Sue puts 6 into FF. Her forcefield soaks 6, takes 6, is taken down so Sue take 1 damage, 2 white left. Panel 2: Hulk attacks for 14, Sue puts 5 into FF. Her forcefield soaks 5, takes 5, is taken down again and Sue take 4 damage so she is down to 2 red stone of health.
So if the health of the force field was in red stone it would be much more like it, first turn its much like a normal forcefield if against one oppenent but if its not taken down it can get much more powerfull. But in the first round if there's more than one oppenent this force field is less effective than the normal force field because a normal forcefield a 6 would soak 12 on every attack but this one would only soak 6 on the first attack and less on the others until its down... after what there's no more soaking. So it would be worth a +1 ... maybe a +2 because if your not attacked its stay here and its starting being much more powerfull than the other version.
I really like the idea even if it's somewhat less powerfull its much more usefull!
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Post by rogueborg on Aug 17, 2006 13:45:03 GMT -5
Hulk might get extra stones for being angry? Are you kidding? Of course he's getting extra stones for being angry but that's not a situational modifier. Using examples of actions that occur in comics are perfectly fine and should be encouraged to help players explain to GM's that what they're trying to do is within the realm of possibilty. For instance if the Thing wants to use his strength to leap many miles like the Hulk and wants to argue his point, a GM can simply point out there are no examples in the comics of the Thing being able to jump anywhere near the distance the Hulk can. In fact, using that same example, the MURPG rules would allow the Thing to jump further than he really should be allowed to. With a strength of 9 in MURPG he could jump a long way but you can't find one example to support this in the comics.
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Post by piratespice on Aug 18, 2006 19:20:16 GMT -5
Way to pick a single point to misquote and try to tear apart, RogueBorg. Yes, Hulk could easily get a Situational Modifer for being (and I quote) "especially angry."
Yes, using comic examples is great, but not to the point that it makes the game unplayable. If you look at every rule through the "But-That's-Not-How-It-Happened-In-Issue-#421 Microscope", it will quickly become unplayable, because much like the Bible, some comic or another can be used to prove or disprove anything. Writers and editors vary, and characters' abilities vary with them. Just because something happened or didn't happen in a comic is no reason to throw out a good game mechanic.
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Post by rennyn on Aug 18, 2006 19:53:12 GMT -5
Don't forget the Hulk could beat on the Force Field for days, while she could not maintain it longer than an hour before she got tired. But that's still too long.
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Post by rogueborg on Aug 19, 2006 9:00:12 GMT -5
Spice, who said anything about making the game unplayable? I sure didn't. I stated an opinion that I didn't think the new rule suggstion was realistic that's all. You miss my whole point. Anyway, forget it, I don't want to argue with you about house rules, there's no point. Regarding the Hulk, I guess I can agree that we can give the Hulk some extra stones if he's, as you quote, "Expecially Angry." I mean, when is he NOT "especially angry? Maybe when he's ordering pizza and they mess up his order, that might warrant giving him 3 more in a sitiational modifier when he beats up the deliver guy. Or maybe when he's shopping for new pants, the retailer doesn't have his color purple and he wants to tear the store apart. "Ok Hulk, we're going to give you an extra stone on top of the one you get every third turn to help you "smash" the place." Yeah I guess I can see that. 8^)
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Post by piratespice on Aug 23, 2006 0:54:56 GMT -5
It was an example off the top of my head. You miss my whole point. You're nitpicking about a single silly example, instead of addressing the fact that you ignored Situational Modifiers in the first place, and overanalyzed existing character stats that (A) Weren't made with this House Rule in mind, and (B) Have never accurately reflected what happened in every conceivable issue of a Marvel comic containing those characters. That's what I mean by unplayable. When you start citing specific examples from specific issues, rather than a generalized overview of what a character is typically capable of, then creating a system or accurate statistic becomes an impossible task.
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