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Post by UrbanBlue on Dec 14, 2007 21:34:02 GMT -5
Purple Man's physical stats should be reduced to 1's, I believe. He doesn't work out, and thus he is not athlete level strength, agility, or durability, and is nowhere near olympic level durability. That 3 durability is the same as Moon Knight, a hard-wroking vigilante who is in peak physical condition.
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Post by Stark on Dec 15, 2007 0:20:51 GMT -5
Agreed, but how would you grant him enough energy to be a capable villain if not with Durability?
I mean, he's not smart enough to make his Intelligence 4 or 5 with the special Intelligence-based energy rule. And he's not the kind of character I would see with Energy Battery.
To use his Pheromones action Number of 8, he'd need either of these if he doesn't have a good durability...
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Dec 15, 2007 8:43:55 GMT -5
Technically, you could use the "efficient" home-brewed option for his pheromones and drop his Durability to 2.
Although things like this are terribly common, I wouldn't say they're really a problem. I don't really think Cyclops or Dazzler deserve their Durability 3 either. Sure they're trained and athletic, but do they really belong up there with tireless elites like Electra? Not really, but trying to play a character with an energy reserve of 6 or less is pretty challenging (as I've found out for myself, the hard way). And to be fair, Purple Man, like many other comic book characters, has had his share of getting his butt kicked and not actually dying, perhaps justifying a 3 in the Durability department.
His other abilities, however, aren't so justified, and should perhaps be lower. But since the the guide has already been completed, there's little chance of that happening.
In the end, it boils down to this: you can gripe all day about stats (Spidey should have a lower Int, Quicksilver should have a lower Durability, Blade should be more Agile, Luke Cage should be Stronger, War Machine should be slower, etc., etc.) but changing the official ones (or in this case unofficial, but as close as we're going to get) is just too much work. If you don't like it, adjust the stats for your game, or just write up your own.
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Post by Jet on Dec 15, 2007 9:33:31 GMT -5
Every character that doesnt have Inteligence-energy or transform self powers must have durability 3, mostly becouse there's no way they'd have enough energy, and they dont seem to be a type to have energy batteries. And dont look down on Cyclops and Dazzler- they are inferior to Elektra when it comes to close combat, so is there a need for them to have lesser durability? Its the most important thing, you cant be a hero without highest human health meter and a lot of stamina (see Jubilee as well)
About other characters:
Spiderman- no, his inteligence is perfect. He doesnt have time for study, but he is really, really smart. He just have less knowledge, since he doesnt have time for studies (like Dr Doom or Redd Richards had in his younger days)
Quicksilver- speed is his main thing, but he's also enhanced human in more ways then one. Sure dur 5 seems a but too much, be does he ever gets tired? I dont recall any moment
Blade- we talked about it in Wampire's thread and we agreed he's too weak in CAD.
Luke Cage- this is earlier version of Cage, when he was a real weakling compared to others. Today he would have something around Strenght at 8-9, Durability at 6-7 and Toghness 7-8 (not to mention more Close Combat)
War Machine- his CAD is broken, there's no way he would have 9 in agi and speed at the same time, thats impossible (what? Stark would give someone better armor then he has? yeah right...)
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Dec 15, 2007 10:03:19 GMT -5
Playah, I agree with yopu about all the examples I listed. Actually, I'm not familliar with Luke Cage, considering I've only read 2 comics he appeared in, and he didn't show his strength in either of them. However, it is a complaint I've heard.
Similarly, Spider-Man's Intelligence is just right. It puts him right up by Doom, Iron Man, and Reed Richards, but since he doesn't have much inventing or any General Knowledge, it balances out. People also complain that classic Spidey's Strength should be a point higher, and although it seems they are technically correct, (usually the best kind of correct) I think 5 is alright. Although he is strong, he doesn't rely on his muscle nearly as much as his brainpower. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen him save the day by lifting a car and throwing at Rhino or anyone. Granted, anyone can outsmart Rhino, but still...
Basically, I don't feel that the stats are somehow "wrong" or "broken", (Well, War Machine IS broken, but other than that...) but I've seen these complaints so many times I can barely stand it. On the upside, at least Purple Man's stats haven't been brought up countless times like many of the others.
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Post by Stark on Dec 15, 2007 18:00:11 GMT -5
I also think most heroes should have 3 in Durability.
As for Spidey, I've made a special home-made rule about weight-lifting that says a character may lift up to the next level of strength weight (like, with 5 strength like Spidey, you could lift up to 10 tons), but you may do nothing else until you've dropped it, you can't throw it and lose 3 stones of energy/panel you hold it. If you somehow run out of energy while holding it, the object falls on you, and you lose at least 1 Health (plus any for the heavy object you just received on the head).
It usually works and allows my P.Cs characters to do stuff like ("I deploy all my strength to lift the car long enough to allow my trapped friend to free himself").
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Dec 15, 2007 18:46:16 GMT -5
Stark, that sounds like a really good house rule!! I think I'm going to use that one.
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Post by UrbanBlue on Dec 15, 2007 20:35:55 GMT -5
Although things like this are terribly common, I wouldn't say they're really a problem. I don't really think Cyclops or Dazzler deserve their Durability 3 either. I think that Cyclops may warrant a 3 in Durability.
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Post by Stark on Dec 15, 2007 21:17:46 GMT -5
Thanks, Kaimontfendo. [glow=red,2,300]I think that Cyclops may warrant a 3 in Durability.[/glow] Indeed. He's been said numerous times to be trained almost to peak human level. I wouldn't give him a lower durability.
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Post by tazirai1 on Dec 23, 2007 18:17:32 GMT -5
When I create homegrown characters. I give realistic stats based on the type of campaign I envision. Characters that are in areas where they havent been doing heroics long typically have 1-2 durability. Heroes at the top of their game have 3, but they end to have higher overall stats. I also tend to give low dur, low-mod int characters, suits or items that give them a bt of extra juice.
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 2, 2008 21:18:23 GMT -5
Two words; Energy Battery
If so many GMs werent so psycho about interpreting EB as a "super power" or insisting that its broken (which it's not, remotely), humans would be much more viable characters in the MURPG game, and people wouldn't have to have ridiculously overblown Durability scores.
I've pointed it out 10,000 times, and I'll say it again... Daredevil and Punisher COULD NOT exist under the MURPG rules as written. Their energy pool of 9 simply would not allow for the sustained fights they engage in on a regular basis.
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Post by UrbanBlue on Jan 2, 2008 21:20:07 GMT -5
Two words; Energy Battery If so many GMs werent so psycho about interpreting EB as a "super power" or insisting that its broken (which it's not, remotely), humans would be much more viable characters in the MURPG game, and people wouldn't have to have ridiculously overblown Durability scores. I've pointed it out 10,000 times, and I'll say it again... Daredevil and Punisher COULD NOT exist under the MURPG rules as written. Their energy pool of 9 simply would not allow for the sustained fights they engage in on a regular basis. Agreed
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Post by pneumonica on Oct 20, 2009 17:29:45 GMT -5
While I don't disagree with what you say (at least not for the most part), it should be pointed out that having an AN higher than your Energy can be extremely useful. For instance, a safecrack with a high enough Action can crack a safe despite only spending one Energy per Panel (it'll take a hell of a long time, but it's still doable).
Also, low-Durability characters can be made more useful with Modifiers. Force Blast is a lot more effective with Targeting, and a Durability 2 character can have five stones of Force Blast and still be reasonably able to reliably throw down 5 or 6 stones, or go all-out with something around 10. Add in weapon modifiers, Reflexive Dodge, etc., and you can consistently throw out some baseline combat abilities (certainly enough to wipe the floor with any mook) for approximately 10-14 stones plus whatever you put into Actions and Abilities.
I realize this is a focused build, but there are plenty of variations of this setup that can work similar magic for other purposes.
Durability 1 characters are definitively normals, and I wouldn't play any PC with Durability that low.
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