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Post by lilithsboy on Feb 17, 2015 15:48:12 GMT -5
No. You do not get it for free. Nothing about your character comes for free. That is like saying everyone has a body and a brain so you get 1 point in each of your primary stats for free. Your assumption is simply wrong.
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Post by Lord_Amadeus_Rahl on Feb 17, 2015 21:56:40 GMT -5
Its not an assumption, its explicitly stated with claws. Its only takes simple logic and observation skills to deduce the rest.
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Post by lilithsboy on Feb 17, 2015 22:33:06 GMT -5
Notice how it never states that it adds it for free. If this were true what person in their right mind would not have adamantium claws if they were going to have claws on their character. I am sorry putting the word adamantium on something does not give you a 3+CL modifier for free.
The armor penetration modifier talks about how adamantium and vibranium are armor piercing then tells you that buying that modifier is how you represent that
Furthermore I am a published theologian I know what logic dictates and what you are saying requires is an huge leap in logic.
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Post by Lord_Amadeus_Rahl on Feb 17, 2015 22:55:27 GMT -5
I'm gonna assume the last part was a lue. A theologian is an expert on The Bible, and that not only does that have nothing to do with this, it in itself requires faith which is the absence of logic
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Post by lilithsboy on Feb 17, 2015 23:04:33 GMT -5
No a theologian is an expert in religious philosophy, an expert in only the bible is called a biblical scholar. In other words a theologian is someone who uses logic and understands the rules of logic as a matter of profession.
Back to the point. Backstory and fluff for a character give nothing for free. Just because you have adamantium claws does not give you armor piercing. If you want adamantium claws you will have to buy both modifiers before you can state such. I.E. you have to back up your backstory with your stones, not the other way around.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 17, 2015 23:10:18 GMT -5
Notice how it never states that it adds it for free. ^ This is correct. Or, at least, that's how things tend to run around here. The main problem here is that the book is notoriously misleading and/or confusingly worded. There are a lot of rules that can easily be interpreted one way or another, and it's usually up to the GM of an individual game to lay down their interpretation (effectively their house rules) on any given rule. Wolverine's claws modifier is just one of many examples I could name off the top of my head, sadly. The way we typically run things at these boards is to have everyone pay for what you get, and get what you pay for. You don't usually get anything for free, even if it "makes sense". So, while it makes sense that wolverine gets armor penetration because he bought both claws and an adamantium skeleton, he still has to actually pay stones for the armor penetration on his claws. If he gets it, he has to pay for it. Some GMs may house rule a discount for combining these options, but that's pretty strictly a house rule/clarification. With all of that said, however, I don't think there is a truly "correct" interpretation. I can't stress enough that the rules are not very well written or thoroughly edited. ~TWF
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Post by Manah on Feb 18, 2015 1:20:23 GMT -5
This is correct. Or, at least, that's how things tend to run around here. The main problem here is that the book is notoriously misleading and/or confusingly worded. There are a lot of rules that can easily be interpreted one way or another, and it's usually up to the GM of an individual game to lay down their interpretation (effectively their house rules) on any given rule. Wolverine's claws modifier is just one of many examples I could name off the top of my head, sadly. The way we typically run things at these boards is to have everyone pay for what you get, and get what you pay for. You don't usually get anything for free, even if it "makes sense". So, while it makes sense that wolverine gets armor penetration because he bought both claws and an adamantium skeleton, he still has to actually pay stones for the armor penetration on his claws. If he gets it, he has to pay for it. Some GMs may house rule a discount for combining these options, but that's pretty strictly a house rule/clarification. With all of that said, however, I don't think there is a truly "correct" interpretation. I can't stress enough that the rules are not very well written or thoroughly edited. ~TWF ...Exactly. The fact Wolvie's claws are adamantium does not make the AP free. It is simply the reason why the player can buy it. Just like a 'robot' character would have to pay for Self-Contained Lifeform, Toughness, Photographic Memory and Biocomputing. On does not get anything for free just because of the fluff around the character.
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Post by Lord_Amadeus_Rahl on Feb 18, 2015 11:34:33 GMT -5
This is correct. Or, at least, that's how things tend to run around here. The main problem here is that the book is notoriously misleading and/or confusingly worded. There are a lot of rules that can easily be interpreted one way or another, and it's usually up to the GM of an individual game to lay down their interpretation (effectively their house rules) on any given rule. Wolverine's claws modifier is just one of many examples I could name off the top of my head, sadly. The way we typically run things at these boards is to have everyone pay for what you get, and get what you pay for. You don't usually get anything for free, even if it "makes sense". So, while it makes sense that wolverine gets armor penetration because he bought both claws and an adamantium skeleton, he still has to actually pay stones for the armor penetration on his claws. If he gets it, he has to pay for it. Some GMs may house rule a discount for combining these options, but that's pretty strictly a house rule/clarification. With all of that said, however, I don't think there is a truly "correct" interpretation. I can't stress enough that the rules are not very well written or thoroughly edited. ~TWF ...Exactly. The fact Wolvie's claws are adamantium does not make the AP free. It is simply the reason why the player can buy it. Just like a 'robot' character would have to pay for Self-Contained Lifeform, Toughness, Photographic Memory and Biocomputing. On does not get anything for free just because of the fluff around the character. How can you say exactly, and then directly contradict him? Thank you takenwithfood.
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Post by Manah on Feb 18, 2015 11:39:57 GMT -5
...What are you talking about? Nothing I said contradicted him in any way. Read again: I'm giving examples of the fact you have to pay for everything and would not get anything free. Which is simply putting emphasis on what TWF said. There is absolutely no contradiction whatsoever there.
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Post by Brainstem on Feb 18, 2015 12:30:07 GMT -5
Rahl, though you're free to play the game however you want, your understanding of the rules is incorrect, but I can understand how you came to your conclusion. Purchasing the Claws Modifier only guarantees a general pool bonus to Close Combat; it says nothing of the source (other than generic "Claws"). Purchasing Adamantium Skeleton only states that you have adamantium in your skeleton sufficient enough to " revent[] broken bones, crushed skulls, etc." Claws aren't necessarily bone and the Adamantium Skeleton doesn't always replace your entire skeleton. If you want armor penetrating Claws, then you have to pay the extra for it, regardless of the source. For the game's purposes, Adamantium Claws are the same as Energy Claws: they both penetrate armor and add a bonus to Close Combat. Because of this, they cost the same.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 18, 2015 12:59:09 GMT -5
I didn't see any contradiction in there, either.
~TWF
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