Intelligence Based Initiative?

[Cernunnos]

I don't think this is covered in the books, but I was making NPC CADs up for my games and was wondering what your thoughts on an Intelligence Based Initiative option might be for powerful telepaths such as Jean Grey or Xavier. I know a Speed based initiative option exists for speedsters like Quicksilver, but what about those who are quick in the mind? I understand that it might be way to OP for many games (because usually a telepath's weakness is low initiative against faster opponents), but I do think it makes sense, since one must think before one acts... and in the case of telepaths they usually train their mind to think before others.

What are your thought/comments on this option, and if a player in your game tried to get away with it on his CAD would you allow them?

[WildKnight]

... because Int-based energy doesn't already make Int enough of a God Stat?

Honestly, it feels like the only reason to even have this would be to make sure that Int characters almost always go first, and I've never seen anything in the comics to indicate that any high Int character tends to act first in any given situation, so it feels totally unnecessary. If anything, high Int characters in the comics tend to react more than they act. You don't see Doctor Doom launching alpha strikes, and Johnny or Ben Grimm always lead the charge for the FF, despite being unquestionably the dumber half of the FF...

[Cernunnos]

Good points. Again... I know it is OP, but I do want to see a discussion/people's thoughts on it...

[lilithsboy]

Intelligence based characters tend to wait for the other person to act at which point the attacker leaves themselves vunerable to actions I think that initiative for intelligence is wrong simply because acting first is not something those people tend to do ergo they are not prone to even attempting to act first. I am sorry I think you are wrong here. Quick witted often means you wait and respond.

[Brainstem]

There's no way to "wait and see," though. Which is why Prescience exists.

[lilithsboy]

You do commit to an action before the stones true. But the description of the action often can make it look as though that is exactly what happened.

[lilithsboy]

Although I will say the point Brainstem makes is exactly why I give so many of my characters Prescience.

[WildKnight]

Jun 7, 2015 13:58:52 GMT -5 Brainstem said:

There's no way to "wait and see," though. Which is why Prescience exists.

... actually Prescience exists because the "game designers" were clueless morons and didn't understand that giving players the ability to allot their stones after seeing what everyone else was doing is functionally identical to letting players in D&D act at any time in the initiative of their choosing, including AFTER another person has declared and rolled their action but before the effects take place, AND letting them choose the outcome of their own die roll

Prescience, more than any other game element, fundamentally undermines the core mechanic of the system... and even in so doing, STILL fails to properly demonstrate the one thing it was included to emulate; Spider-Mans "spider sense", which clearly in the comics does not tell him what other people are doing before he decides what to do.

[lilithsboy]

Actually I figured it was more for characters such as Destiny those who actually were capable of seeing the future, and believe reflexive dodge is more what Spiderman does.

[WildKnight]

Jun 7, 2015 23:13:05 GMT -5 lilithsboy said:

Actually I figured it was more for characters such as Destiny those who actually were capable of seeing the future, and believe reflexive dodge is more what Spiderman does.

... except that Destiny wasn't remotely in the minds of the creators when they put out the first book (which includes Prescience), and Spider-Man has Prescience on his CAD in that very book. Destiny, meanwhile, doesn't appear in any book at all, which kind of argues against the idea that they created Prescience with her in mind.

You're giving WAY too much credit to the designers of this game. Prescience is an indefensibly moronic Modifier. Even if it had been meant to represent someone like Destiny, it would still completely undermine the core mechanic of the game.

[Brainstem]

Jun 7, 2015 14:33:26 GMT -5 WildKnight said:

Jun 7, 2015 13:58:52 GMT -5 Brainstem said:

There's no way to "wait and see," though. Which is why Prescience exists.

... actually Prescience exists because the "game designers" were clueless morons and didn't understand that giving players the ability to allot their stones after seeing what everyone else was doing is functionally identical to letting players in D&D act at any time in the initiative of their choosing, including AFTER another person has declared and rolled their action but before the effects take place, AND letting them choose the outcome of their own die roll

Prescience, more than any other game element, fundamentally undermines the core mechanic of the system... and even in so doing, STILL fails to properly demonstrate the one thing it was included to emulate; Spider-Mans "spider sense", which clearly in the comics does not tell him what other people are doing before he decides what to do.

Oh I totally agree; I'm just getting more toward 'we don't need to give more power to X when Y already covers it, mechanically". Y sucks, but we don't need to add more problematic things when the currently-existing problematic things serve the same function.

[lilithsboy]

Ignoring the fact that you have explained ad nauseam you do not enjoy the MURPG rules system to the point many of us simply ignore your post... What is your idea of the core mechanic of the game?

[WildKnight]

Jun 8, 2015 11:16:06 GMT -5 lilithsboy said:

Ignoring the fact that you have explained ad nauseam you do not enjoy the MURPG rules system to the point many of us simply ignore your post... What is your idea of the core mechanic of the game?

The core mechanic is allotting stones without knowing how many of them will be necessary to accomplish a given task, balancing your decision on how many stones you spend based on how much is available in your energy pool and how much you'll regenerate before the next panel. In effect, it is a "betting" system. The random element of other RPGs is replaced with a risk-taking system.

[lilithsboy]

And prescience does not actually undermine that. Prescience will not tell you how many stones of defense the person has in fact it is actually less effcient in the risk taking system than reflexive dodge or toughness because it gives no stones for free. Every time you attack even with prescience you attack blindly. You still do not know how much you will need to spend on a given task but you do know how much is needed to stay safe. The goal of the game is not to actually kill the pcs. If it where the knock out mechanic as well as powers like reconstitute self would not be in play. The goal of the system is to have fun.

[WildKnight]

Jun 8, 2015 12:29:15 GMT -5 lilithsboy said:

And prescience does not actually undermine that. Prescience will not tell you how many stones of defense the person has in fact it is actually less effcient in the risk taking system than reflexive dodge or toughness

LOL no.

Prescience lets you know exactly how many stones of active defense each and every single other player has, as well as what attacks are going to happen, who they're going to target, and how many stones they're going to target them with. The only thing you DON'T know is exactly how much Toughness or RD someone you might want to target has, and that's a pretty small percentage of the overall playing field.

It is effectively like playing Hold 'Em Poker and getting to know exactly what cards everyone around the table is holding as well as getting to wait until everyone else has acted before you place any bets. Sure, there is an element you still don't know (the cards still unrevealed by the Dealer), but you're still not really playing the game.

You say "the goal is to have fun." The game stops being fun when one player has all of the advantages. Fun is not a mechanic, it is a result.