I won't spoil anything, but for a movie this long with so many characters to not be a mess it's an accomplishment. I loved it and while Avengers 1 and to a lesser extent 2 feel like great "Superhero Team" movies, this one genuinely feels like a comic book crossover/event movie. Incredible.
Post by takewithfood on May 1, 2018 16:17:01 GMT -5
Just saw it. I'll also need a day to process as it's very unlike a normal movie. I can safely say that I didn't love it, and left the theater feeling somewhere between empty and disappointed. But I'm hard to please.
Post by takewithfood on May 1, 2018 17:10:52 GMT -5
Oh there's absolutely no comparison. Infinity War made Justice League look like the cheap Chinese knockoff of Infinity War that you'd find in the $1 bargain bin at a K-Mart clearance sale.
I can't quite put my thumb on the nagging feeling I have about Infinity War, though. I'm not sure if it's that it feels like the MCU has finally jumped the shark, or that it's actually become so much like an actual comic book story that I'm starting to lose interest. For reference, I haven't read a mainstream Marvel (or DC, for tha matter) comic that I've enjoyed in about a decade. Basically, this is me:
I just don't know what they think that ending is supposed to make me feel. I'm not naive enough to feel what the characters are feeling, so what's left? I guess I'm curious to see what happens next? That's fine, but I didn't buy a ticket to feel curious.
I have some criticisms about little things, which on one hand I feel like forgiving because they're almost all necessary when you have a film with this many characters, that have been established over ten years, in a single storyline. But on the other hand, this comes back to my fear that they've either jumped the shark, and/or they're turning this into the clusterfuck that main continuity comics have become in the last few decades.
There was obviously a LOT of stuff I loved and thoroughly enjoyed, and it was nice to have my expectations repeatedly subverted in a way that made me more interested, rather than just feeling annoyed or condescended to (I'm looking at you, Last Jedi). And it really is impressive how well the movie works considering the degree of difficulty.
I don't know. I don't know what to feel yet. I have never watched a 3 hour movie that felt too fast and short before. This is weird. It was a very interesting movie, but I have no idea if it was actually good or if I still feel optimistic about the MCU's future.
Looking forward to Ant Man & The Wasp, though. I suddenly feel the urge to watch something safe and predictable.
In the end credits scene with Thanos enjoying his little cottage in the mountains, I half expected him to have like a neighbour who casually asked him "But I mean, like, why didn't you just wish for more food?" and then having the whole movie end on a close-up of Thanos' expression of surprise and regret. lol
Post by takewithfood on May 2, 2018 21:30:28 GMT -5
It's weird. I tend to like movies less after a day or two of thinking about them, but so far I'm having the reverse reaction to Infinity War. It's growing on me. I think I'll need a second look some day.
So, let's quickly take stock of who died and who survived Infinity War:
Conventional Deaths: - Heimdall - Loki - basically all of Asgard, presumably including Valkyrie, Korg, Miek, etc - Gamorra - Vision
Dusted: - Black Panther - Falcon - Bucky - Scarlet Witch - Star Lord - Drax - Groot - Mantis - Spider-Man - Dr. Strange - Nick Fury - Maria Hill
Confirmed Alive: - Tony Stark - Captain America - Thor - Bruce Banner - War Machine - Black Widow - Nebula - Rocket - Okoye - M'Baku
Unconfirmed: - Pepper Potts - Shuri - Ant-Man / Hope Pym / rest of Ant-Man cast - Wong / Mordo / rest of the Dr. Strange cast - W'kabi and the rest of the Black Panther cast - Hawkeye and family - Agent Coulson and the Agents of Shield cast (well THAT'S going to be an interesting episode..)
So, obviously, Marvel is never going to permanently destroy their most promising future franchise players like Spider-Man, Black Panther, the Guardians, etc. Clearly many of the dusted characters are going to come back. The question is, who will ultimately live and who, if anyone, will actually die for good?
Well what if it's as simple as flipping these lists around as a result of Avengers 4?
Take a look at the list of confirmed survivors. Is anyone on that list an actual deal-breaker for Marvel going forward? Is there more that the producers, writers, and directors want to do with these characters that they haven't done in the last 10 years? Also, from a financial standpoint, would killing these people instead make a lot more sense?
Let's assume that this is what happens; that somewhere during the events of Avengers 4 the survivors flip the script and save everyone that was dusted at the expense of their own lives. What would the MCU look like going forward? What are their flagship franchises?
Iron Man Gone. Iron Man and War Machine are gone. No more suits or any of that. Pepper, if she is alive, has to deal with the fall-out. Marvel no longer has to pay RDJ a king's ransom for every film. Marvel loses their flagship character, but they also make a lot of room for someone to try to step up into his place.
Captain America Marvel's second big hitter (chronologically) is gone, too. I don't think there's a lot more Marvel wanted to do with this version of Steve Rogers. Peggy is dead. Steve has accepted that his war will never end. Much of his current storyline has to do with his rocky relationship with Stark, and that would obviously be done now - perhaps the hatchet would be buried during Avengers 4. Going forward, the Avengers would have to move on without their moral compass. Bucky would get a chance to take up Cap's shield. Falcon would have to find his own place as more than just a sidekick. I so fucking seriously want to see Bucky and Falcon try to pick up the pieces together.
Thor This one hurts Marvel as Thor just had a very successful film with a brand new look and tone. He also just mastered his thunder and lightning powers and got a new axe. However, Asgard is in ruins, and the Asgardians themselves may or may not be extinct (depending on whether conventional deaths in the film last). His relationship with Loki has little room left for evolution (though I admit I could still stand to see a bit more; maybe in Avengers 4?).
Guardians of the Galaxy This very popular franchise returns with minimal losses: only Rocket and Nebula die. Though I love Nebula, she hasn't really cemented her place in the Guardians lineup and could be considered quite expendable. Rocket, on the other hand, seems like a very bankable character, and has interesting relationships with both Quill and Groot especially. Marvel might still consider this an acceptable loss to give that team some pathos. Gamorra's death seems necessary to reverse, however: she is the only prominent female character in the cast, and is a major character. This doesn't seem hard to fix, though; I kinda doubt that a fall of even that height would kill a daughter of Thanos.
Spider-Man Peter Parker returns, and has a bright future. He has been literally dubbed a full member of the Avengers, he has his upgraded armor, and would have to go forward from this point without his mentor figure, Tony. A very interesting development for him.
Dr. Strange Strange will have (mostly) successfully saved the universe from another catastrophe, probably thanklessly. His future is entirely open. He probably gets the Eye back, and is likely responsible for hiding/defending the remaining stones. His business with Mordo, assuming he survived, is unfinished, though if Marvel wants to abandon that plot thread they now have an easy excuse (oh look, Mordo is dust, oh no). I'm skeptical that Strange would get another solo film, but I see him showing up in a lot of other people's.
Black Panther The surprise hit of the year comes back largely intact. Okoye is the only confirmed loss, which is probably acceptable. Shuri probably survives and I can see her taking a larger role in the MCU since she was quite popular among fans. (The Avengers do need a new tech genius, after all!) T'Challa likely steps up to fill a lot of Captain America's boots and role.
Ant-Man and the Wasp Hard to say, but probably untouched. They might use this as an excuse to ditch any characters they didn't like. Ant-Man's future is a bit of a toss-up right now, at least until we see how their second outing fares with fans and critics and (most importantly) at the box office. I'm predicting good things, though; the mainstream MCU is getting REALLY heavy and emotional, and they will need more lighthearted products going forward. I don't think Spider-Man can or should do all of that heavy lifting by itself.
Captain Marvel Not much to say here, except that she's certainly joining the team. She seems like the obvious fit as the new Thor-type character: heavy-hitter, ties to outer space, foot in two worlds at the same time. And I guess blonde. I really hope Marvel nails this movie as it will be their first chance to set the tone for the "new" MCU.
The Avengers The core Avengers team loses almost everyone, including Black Widow and Bruce Banner/Hulk. I personally really enjoy Black Widow, but Marvel has shown little to no interest in pushing her storyline, so she seems like acceptable losses. The Hulk is obviously quite profitable, but they don't really have a storyline for him, either, and he was never going to get his own movie again. His only story threads were his relationships with his two different sides, and with Black Widow; killing them all off kinda ties that right up.
So the surviving Avengers team could look like:
Black Panther Captain Marvel Bucky with Cap's Shield Falcon Scarlet Witch Spider-Man Fury and Maria Hill Hawkeye? Vision? Ant-Man? Shuri in a larger/supporting role? Dr. Strange is technically around when they need him.
That actually looks like a serviceable phase 4/5+ lineup to me. I honestly think there's enough interest there to keep putting butts in seats, at least for a while. I do think they've kinda jumped the shark with Infinity War, but allowing for some big, meaningful deaths and going forward with these characters seems like the most effective way to prolong the MCU. This gives them the most design space for new stories and new directions.
Black Panther 2? With Falcon and Bucky involved?
Captain Marvel 2?
The Guardians get to fuck off to space and have their own adventures again, largely intact, but not unscathed. Adam Warlock was teased. Maybe Carol gets in on this too?
As for the next big crossover: Secret Invasion, anyone? Who was a skrull this whole time? Falcon? Maria Hill? One or both of Ant-Man or The Wasp?
Anyway, long rambling aside, I think this is pretty workable and I would not be at all surprised if this is the plan for next year.