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Post by shenron on May 14, 2019 11:35:54 GMT -5
So, I finally got around to watching this animated film and it was enjoyable. I thought the animation was spot on and I liked the costume choices. The story is well, the Death of Superman via Doomsday. Every iteration of the story has always kind of bugged me becuase Superman just through tactics out the window and turned it into a boxing match. Same thing with the rest of the Justice League. There were some interesting interactions between Superman and Wonderwoman which felt odd to me becuase I the Bat should have had more interactions with Wonderwoman. I just wish the death scene was better. It could have been a lot better in many ways (Man of Steel gives us a great example). But overall it was good and I think it gave the characters more personally then the Doomsday movie.
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Post by WildKnight on May 14, 2019 12:06:35 GMT -5
So, I finally got around to watching this animated film and it was enjoyable. I thought the animation was spot on and I liked the costume choices. The story is well, the Death of Superman via Doomsday. Every iteration of the story has always kind of bugged me becuase Superman just through tactics out the window and turned it into a boxing match. Same thing with the rest of the Justice League. There were some interesting interactions between Superman and Wonderwoman which felt odd to me becuase I the Bat should have had more interactions with Wonderwoman. I just wish the death scene was better. It could have been a lot better in many ways (Man of Steel gives us a great example). But overall it was good and I think it gave the characters more personally then the Doomsday movie. Its never mentioned in the movie, but in both the comics and the novelization, its specifically stated that Superman HAD to throw out tactics and fight Doomsday head-on because Doomsday was so fast and so powerful that any second he wasn't fighting Superman, he was destroying things and killing people. He takes out the entire (admittedly wussified version of the) Justice League in a matter of seconds. The death toll ends up being in the millions, from a rampage that only lasted a few hours. At one point Superman DOES try to bait Doomsday away from population centers, and Doomsday doesn't fall for it. I have serious issues with the way the movie handled things, but the original version was well-plotted, and the novelization is downright brilliant. Every single element of that story is in service to the ultimate tragedy of it all; Superman KNOWINGLY sacrifices his life rather than let anyone be harmed if he can stop it. After a certain point, Superman knows. And he chooses. And that's the beauty of it. Its why a certain death in a more recent live action super hero movie was so poignant. Falling in battle and being killed is sad, but its a heroic tragedy when the life is given willingly out of love.
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Post by ZehnWaters on May 14, 2019 13:09:25 GMT -5
I just like how Batman in this pic is like "Hm...something interesting over that direction..."
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Post by shenron on May 14, 2019 13:09:53 GMT -5
Ah. Ya, it has been so long since I read the comics that I do not remember that. I am glad the comics do that and the novelization does that.
But now I really want to track down the novelization version.
It was rad seeing Doomsday evolve through the battle.
Is there a novelization of the aftermath? With the other Supermen showing up and all of that jazz.
So, you think the other animated version, Doomsday is better? I think I actually own that one.
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Post by WildKnight on May 14, 2019 13:33:02 GMT -5
Ah. Ya, it has been so long since I read the comics that I do not remember that. I am glad the comics do that and the novelization does that. But now I really want to track down the novelization version. It was rad seeing Doomsday evolve through the battle. Is there a novelization of the aftermath? With the other Supermen showing up and all of that jazz. So, you think the other animated version, Doomsday is better? I think I actually own that one. The novelization is "The Death and Return of Superman" It covers both. Good luck finding a copy that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, last time I priced a copy on Amazon they were $35+, but it is a fantastic book, by far the best version of the stories (Death of Superman and Reign of the Supermen) IMO I prefer the more recent version of Death of Superman, but both of them are kind of hamstrung by time and by being simplified for people who aren't familiar with the overall Superman mythos (and the second animated version REALLY suffers from being tied to the previous DC animated movies, because it really "shorts" the Clark/Lois relationship by having to dispense with the asinine Superman/Wonder Woman relationship as well in its 90 minute run time) Its just my opinion, but both of them sort of miss the boat in how they handle Doomsday because the entire point of Doomsday is that he wasn't sent by anybody, he doesn't have any long-standing grudge with Superman... Superman's death is a senseless tragedy and nobody could have prepared for it beforehand, or explain it after the fact. It was just this horrible, brutal thing that happened, and that caused a lot of people to question a lot of their assumptions about the way their world worked. In the aftermath, Hal Jordan's entire world was shattered; his home city was destroyed, AND Superman, the guy he'd always seen as the "constant" in the world of Earth's heroes, was gone (played directly into Parallax, which is not nearly as bad a story as people want to make it out to be). Batman had to acknowledge for the first time since Crisis on Infinite Earths that there was just no way for him to plan for every eventuality, and through that, to eventually come to grips with the death of Jason Todd (which of course DC pissed away for a cheap return, but whatever, that's the way of all comics I guess) Even Lex Luthor evolved through Superman's death, and specifically through the senseless nature of it (again, character development that would be thrown away for endless reboots and retcons, but for a moment, it was glorious)
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Post by WildKnight on May 14, 2019 13:34:26 GMT -5
I just like how Batman in this pic is like "Hm...something interesting over that direction..." Not the biggest Batman fan, but I love that he no-sells Superman's death like that. As always, the Bat knew that in the absence of the Big Blue Boyscout, he was the solid ground that the other heroes needed (he did break down about it though, but only to Alfred)
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Post by WildKnight on May 14, 2019 13:35:24 GMT -5
Only tangentally related; the Batman: No Man's Land novelization is also really, really good
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Post by shenron on May 14, 2019 13:41:52 GMT -5
Ya, I was bummed at the whole Superman/Wonderwoman thing. I feel the Batman/Wonderwoman is/was a more interesting situation. I think you are right on how the death of Superman effected everyone. Is this the Novel?
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Post by WildKnight on May 14, 2019 14:08:26 GMT -5
Ya, I was bummed at the whole Superman/Wonderwoman thing. I feel the Batman/Wonderwoman is/was a more interesting situation. I think you are right on how the death of Superman effected everyone. Is this the Novel?Yep, that's the one. I've never really been a fan of "super hero couples" with the rare exception of when its properly written into their lore (as with The Hawks), but the DCAU skirted the line with Batman and Wonder Woman in a way that was fun and hinted at the possibility of something deeper, while also portraying both of them as too aloof for the audience to think anything would really come of it. Fun stuff
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Post by shenron on May 14, 2019 16:09:14 GMT -5
I've never really been a fan of "super hero couples" with the rare exception of when its properly written into their lore (as with The Hawks), but the DCAU skirted the line with Batman and Wonder Woman in a way that was fun and hinted at the possibility of something deeper, while also portraying both of them as too aloof for the audience to think anything would really come of it. Fun stuff Ya - the tension was a lot of fun and clever. I'll have to get my hands on that book. Of course there is not a kindle version. Can't get that lucky.
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