New Advantages and Disadvantages

[sphynx]

(Some Credit to Wayne for bringing a knockback idea to mind)

+2 Option : KnockBack. This allows a power to intentionally knockback a target easier. The lower of AN or Stones placed into the power minus the Durability of the Target is the "Area/Leaping" the target is thrown back.
Eg. My version of Cyclops has his ForceBlast at 6 with this option being possible. His Telekinetic Blast using 6 stones against a target with a Durability of 3 could knock that target back 25'

-1 Exclusitivity. When using a power with this disadvantage, you are limited to 1 Action that panel. That Action may not be stacked with another action for a single effect either.

+6 Mastery. You can alter your advantages and disadvantages with a power as you see fit, taking on new advantages and/or disadvantages per use of the Action/Modifier. You are limited to +4 total in Advantages. So, you could take a +2 +3 and a -1 for a +4 total on any action.

Main reason I added these advantages is to allow me to create a more realistic version of Cyclops. I created him on 40 stones.

Strength, Speed, Agility, Intelligence all at 3.
Durability at 4.

BlackOps: 5 (Not sure how they missed that one...)
CloseCombat: 3 (Higher Agility in this creation)
Leadership: 6
Social Skills: 3
Technology: 2 (higher Int in this creation)

ForceBlast: 6 (9 White)
+6 Mastery
-2 Can not improve with lines
-2 Out of Control w/o device.

Targetting: 6 (15 White)

Challenges:

Mutant -3
Psychological, Very Jealous: -2

Anyhows, I know I should post this in Heroes thread, but I posted here to show why I created this "Mastery" advantage.

His control over his beams, because he has the visor, has been demonstrated in the comics in 4 different ways from my evaluation.

He can do his normal blast which does x2 Damage and KnockBack (thanks Wayne). for a +4 Advantage total.

He also can do area effect (+3) at x2 Damage (+2) but cause alot of collateral damage in the process (-1), for a +4 Advantage total.

He's also used his beams to break locks by narrowing it to a laser size level doing x3 damage, but no other effects (+4) for a +4 Advantage total.

Lastly, he can 'push himself' really hard to get out a much more powerful beam (+5 for adding Durability Bonus) but when pushing himself, can't perform any other action (-1 Exclusive), for a +4 Advantage total.

Thoughts?

Sphynx

[xavier]

sphynx said:

(Some Credit to Wayne for bringing a knockback idea to mind)
+2 Option : KnockBack. This allows a power to intentionally knockback a target easier. The lower of AN or Stones placed into the power minus the Durability of the Target is the "Area/Leaping" the target is thrown back.
Eg. My version of Cyclops has his ForceBlast at 6 with this option being possible. His Telekinetic Blast using 6 stones against a target with a Durability of 3 could knock that target back 25'

-1 Exclusitivity. When using a power with this disadvantage, you are limited to 1 Action that panel. That Action may not be stacked with another action for a single effect either.

These ones are great.

+6 Mastery. You can alter your advantages and disadvantages with a power as you see fit, taking on new advantages and/or disadvantages per use of the Action/Modifier. You are limited to +4 total in Advantages. So, you could take a +2 +3 and a -1 for a +4 total on any action.

....

+ Cyke exemple

Great idea, well priced, ...
I will surely use it in my campaign but i think that it needs some restrictions:
- the player must discribe a limited number of "+4 packages" during character's creation and can only shift between these pre-programmed packages
- shifting from one package to another should require some time (e.g. one panel)
- some advantages and/or disadvantages can't be chosen in packages. An obvious example is "can't be improved by adding lines"

Otherwide it's look like a great idea with a lot of potential for "Mastery of ..." kind of actions.

e.g.: Mastery of Electricity

• Offensive package:
  force blast
  accumulate energy
  combine with close/ranged combat
  collateral damage
  
  
• Defensive package:
  free force field
  regenerate when in element
  absorb same element attacks
  
  
• Utility package:
  create/manipulate
  immunity
  can substitute Mastery for Speed
  can substitute Mastery for Agility
  

[wayne]

Wow, these look pretty nice!

sphynx said:

+2 Option : KnockBack. This allows a power to intentionally knockback a target easier. The lower of AN or Stones placed into the power minus the Durability of the Target is the "Area/Leaping" the target is thrown back.

Good choice. I was planning on allowing players to have 'Knockbacks' as a specialty to their Close Combat, but this could work too.

sphynx said:

-1 Exclusitivity. When using a power with this disadvantage, you are limited to 1 Action that panel. That Action may not be stacked with another action for a single effect either.

Hmm. I would have thought this was built-in to the rules, but I guess not. It seems on par with requiring a power be used with another, but is more direct.

sphynx said:

+6 Mastery. You can alter your advantages and disadvantages with a power as you see fit, taking on new advantages and/or disadvantages per use of the Action/Modifier. You are limited to +4 total in Advantages. So, you could take a +2 +3 and a -1 for a +4 total on any action.

Now this is really cool.

I agree with some of Xavier's comments. Choosing 'Can't Be Improved' doesn't seem right. Pre-defining the packages sounds safer, but I'm not sure it's necessary. Allowing the character to change his package 'on the fly' seems reasonable... one panel the power has one Advantage set, the next panel it has another. Works for me.

Overall though, like I said, I really like this one. Your application to Cyclops makes a lot of sense, and illustrates the potential of this Advantage well. Plus, the price seems spot-on. Nice work!

-Wayne

[sphynx]

Xavier, hadn't really thought about Options in addition to Advantages/Disadvantages, I'll have to think on that one. Options are a bit more powerful than Advantages usually. I mean, if you take the +6 Mastery Option, your Telepath could have any/all of the Telepath options with your way... You don't think that'd be a bit off?

Sphynx

[wayne]

sphynx said:

Xavier, hadn't really thought about Options in addition to Advantages/Disadvantages, I'll have to think on that one. Options are a bit more powerful than Advantages usually. I mean, if you take the +6 Mastery Option, your Telepath could have any/all of the Telepath options with your way... You don't think that'd be a bit off?

Oooh, good point... that almost slipped right by me. (I'm using to thinking of them as identical, both being mere added costs.)

Advantages: Definitely!

Options: Definitely not. Even invented Advantages have limits. Options can be pretty much whatever you want.

Plus, yes, the idea of a Telepath with this Advantage, able to add Options at will, is sickening:

Telepathy - level 1
- Can't read minds (-1)
- Mastery Advantage (+6)
TOTAL COST: 4 stones

For just +2 of his +4, the Telepath can choose to have an Intelligence Bonus. Considering almost every Telepathy option is +1 or +2, you have a guy who can perform any Telepathic ability he wants, including reading minds, at his Intelligence+1, for only 4 stones. Yes, that's broken.

-Wayne

[xavier]

sphynx said:

Xavier, hadn't really thought about Options in addition to Advantages/Disadvantages, I'll have to think on that one. Options are a bit more powerful than Advantages usually. I mean, if you take the +6 Mastery Option, your Telepath could have any/all of the Telepath options with your way... You don't think that'd be a bit off?

Sphynx

Well i guess so ... But since i already found Telepathy over broken i forbid it in my games. So it doesn't bother me anymore.
But i have to say that i've had only talked about "Mastery of ..." kind of action. I've had never mentioned Telepathy.

[xavier]

Wayne said:

Telepathy - level 1
- Can't read minds (-1)
- Mastery Advantage (+6)
TOTAL COST: 4 stones

For just +2 of his +4, the Telepath can choose to have an Intelligence Bonus. Considering almost every Telepathy option is +1 or +2, you have a guy who can perform any Telepathic ability he wants, including reading minds, at his Intelligence+1, for only 4 stones. Yes, that's broken.

Even if i wasn't thinking about telepathy when i had suggested the idea of extending "Mastery advantage" to options as well, my previous restrictions work here too:
- as a GM, you can forbid specific advantages/disadvantages/options as you see fit
- player must choose a limited number of packages during character's creation.

Let's say one package for every two level and you will see that it's not really broken (at least not more broken than Telepathy already is).

[wayne]

Xavier said:

- as a GM, you can forbid specific advantages/disadvantages/options as you see fit
- player must choose a limited number of packages during character's creation.

Let's say one package for every two level and you will see that it's not really broken (at least not more broken than Telepathy already is).

Well, I still think even with pre-defined packages, allowing Options to be chosen with this Advantage is too much.

(However, yes, I do agree with you that Telepathy already has it's problems. )

-Wayne

[i3ullseye]

Well, no one in my games have really explored it, but I tend to favor the 'power stunt' approach. What do I mean?

How is it that someone can have a force blast, and with lines of experience develop it into an area effect attack? Pay 10 lines per +1 and just have it spontaneously appear? Expensive, but not logical at all.

Specialties occur when you use an action in certain ways. hyou can put 10 lines into close combat and it goes up, but you have to specify one of the forms you used it as to gain that specialty. If you tried wrestling a thug to the ground at least once you can use that specialty for grappling... but you wont pick up boxing if you never once used it to box.

So the same needs to be true for powers. So there needs to be some system for using other advantages without actually having the options. And to do show you pay a heavy penalty. So how will i work this?

Knockback-

Each attack that has a physical component will do knockback on these conditions. You add one stone to the weight of the target, and subtract this number from the damage done. This is NOT doubled by double damage. Further, if it is armor piercing it is halved. The result is the number of stones they are knocked back on the leaping row of the D&R Chart.

Example... Cyclops hits someone with 8 stones. Normal human mass is 2 stones, and we add one to this to get 3 stones resistance. If all 8 stones are damage, he goes 5 stones away which is up to 100 feet.

This same blast hits Sabretooth. His weight is actually 3 stones, so the resistance is 4. His reflexive dodge lowers the damage by one, and then we subtract the 4 from the 7 damage applied, which is a result of 3. This sends Sabretooth up to 25 feet away.

You can opt to use the blast entitrely for knockback effect, then the damage is applied fully without the weight components reducing it, but the damage still must get through all normal defenses.

I would make enhanced knockback a +1 option, and the result is the weight reduction is cut in half, round down.

Focused knockback is a +2 option, and the result is that NO resistance is offered by the weight of the target.

Area Effect-

Cyclops can already use area effect in my games. He can simply drop stoens from effect and shift them into radius. this works just like magic, and it can only work with actions that logically can produce those results. On top of this is the inherent -2 for not having a specialty in this action.

Once it has been done once it can then be done with only a minus one sit mod.

After a level increase it can be done with NO sitmod neccessary.

Example......

Cyclops first use of area effect... 6 stones effect with 3 stones to area. End result is (6-2)= 4 stones of damage over an area of 3 stones (25').

Second time he now has a lince of experience in it, so now it is a (6-1)= 5 stone attack over area of 3 (25').

If he adds a specialty in it then he can make a 6 stone attack across the entire 3 stone area of 25'.

many many other various uses of powers can be attempted as 'power stunts' by this system, whcih directly takes form the old MSHRPG. I think that is the actual intent of many of the rules of this system, it is just not clearly stated.

[wayne]

Bullseye, I like the idea of letting characters make use of certain tricks and such even when they don't have a Specialty in it, for an appropriate penalty. This can work well with disarms, knockbacks, etc.

But with all but the simplest *Advantages* (as opposed to Specialties, which are 'free'), this becomes another story. Consider:

I've bought a Generic Force Blast, level 9, but with the Area Effects Advantage, for a total of 12CL, or 25 white stones. My teammate bought the same Generic Force Blast, but without any extra advantages, at level 8, for a total of 9 white stones.

Now, it would seem bad enough to see my teammate using Area Effects right off. He's only incurring a paltry -1 penalty (-2 the first time) to use a specifc effect that I paid 13 creation stones for?

But then he acquires enough LOEs, increases his Force Blast to level 9 and, on top of the increased AN, gets the Area Effects for free?

That doesn't strike you in the least bit as being unfair?

-Wayne

[gloom]

I have to agree with Wayne. There's a reason why specialties come with certain actions for free and why advantages like "area effect" cost more. Like Wayne pointed out "area effect" costs an additional +3. I could maybe see granting the ability after about 30 lines. Anything less just unbalances the game.