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Post by ds on Jun 7, 2003 23:48:54 GMT -5
(Name and, honestly, idea stolen largely from Exalted, Nobilis and Buffy)
In addition to the normal energy pool, characters have a secondary pool. This doesn't refresh normally- instead, when a character is seriously impaired by one of their Challenges, they add a stone to it. They may also get them for describing their
Players are free to spend these Drama stones as though they were Energy- with the special rule that a character may excedde their normal maximums through the use of Drama Stones. Thus, while Nightcrawler straining himself utterly might normally cap out at 3ish miles, by dropping in some additional Drama Stones, he manages his more offbeat and impressive blips.
They may also be used to spontaniously 'heal' (Spend a Drama Stone, regain either three red stones or one white- you weren't as badly hurt as it seemed), or to gain additional Lines of Experience (3 Stones per Line).
GMs may set a cap on how many stones a character can have in reserve (0 for a fairly gritty game, 5 or 6 for a fairly normal comic series, 10ish for some serious reality twisting).
Note- Challenges should no longer give bonus stones in character creation- instead, they should be taken as a means of gaining Drama stones more easily.
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Post by gothfather on Jun 8, 2003 0:15:56 GMT -5
I like it a lot. *s*
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Post by i3ullseye on Jun 8, 2003 1:15:07 GMT -5
I am not sure I like it that much.
A lot of this can already be done with certain powers and modifiers. Luck, hexes, etc.... and I CERTAINLY don't like the idea of challenges not giving you character creation stones. It just doesn't feel very comic book to me.
Also, the sontaneously 'heal' is very much out of place in comics. There are those that can heal, and those that get hurt. None of those hurt ever spontaneously heal. This MIGHT not be bad for a specific character to be built on, especially one faith based. But I don't like it for the game as a whole.
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Post by ds on Jun 8, 2003 9:15:55 GMT -5
The spotanious 'healing' represents those times when a character looks down and out- but it's okay, their okay, the injury wasn't as bad as it looked. And if you're telling me that isn't very comic-booky, how many times is an X-type shot in a designated hero zone? Yes, you can also cover this with the knock-out rules, but this provides another option.
Also, something ill explained (it was late, my brain was lax) is that Drama stones are meant to be a Player controlled resource, not a character controlled resource. They're meant to encourage neat descriptions consistantly, and to provide a recompense on the spot when a Challenge actually rears it's ugly head.
In my experience, a game where largely social flaws are balanced against more combat capability tends to break down. Some GMs don't like one player to monopolize the spotlight, and so don't enforce the Challenges as they should. Some are softhearted, and overprotect from creating an adversarial environment. And some bring the hammer down harder than it should. There is a happy midle ground, but it's a rare and tricky thing to find- whereas moving the reward for Challenges to midgame both helps reduce this and make it easier to fix things on the fly. I can't really explain better than that- I've seen it work.
Basically, think of Drama Stones primarily as Flashback Panels situation modifier that are simply explained by Prior Character Coolness. They're a resource for the player to say 'And I REALLY want this to happen, just this once'.
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Post by i3ullseye on Jun 8, 2003 9:24:48 GMT -5
"Basically, think of Drama Stones primarily as Flashback Panels situation modifier that are simply explained by Prior Character Coolness. They're a resource for the player to say 'And I REALLY want this to happen, just this once'. " Thats exactly what luck is for. Put a limit on Luck that you must generate luck ... gaining a stone each time one of your negative effects hits, to spend it on positive luck at a later time. Again, great concept.... for a character. I just don't see me ever adding it as a mechanic to the core of the game for everyone to use. I think it would work better in a powerless game... one where people are not already capable of throwing busses.
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Post by vitruvian on Jun 9, 2003 15:11:25 GMT -5
<<Also, the sontaneously 'heal' is very much out of place in comics. There are those that can heal, and those that get hurt. None of those hurt ever spontaneously heal. This MIGHT not be bad for a specific character to be built on, especially one faith based. But I don't like it for the game as a whole.>>
I don't know - it really seems like the game needs *some* way for characters to more quickly regain stones, even if they don't have a 'healing factor' as one of their powers. After all, how many times have we seen a character get beat down for several panels, *not* fall unconscious (so we know they aren't using the knockout rule to avoid taking white stones in the first place), then come back swinging to save the day? This is a very typical Captain America/ Daredevil/ Punisher/ Ben Grimm kind of deal, none of them with a specific 'regeneration' power.
Possible measures (some have been mentioned before):
1) Base regeneration of red stones on Durability, not current Health, thereby avoiding the 'spiral of death'.
2) Allow red stones of damage to be taken from red stones of energy for attacks that aren't necessarily lethal (i.e., not bullets and knives, but yes for fists, concussive blasts, etc.). Of course, this sort of 'Defense after the fact' would require you to hold on to some of your energy to do any good, but it would reflect the way boxers take a long time to get 'whittled down' pretty well.
3) More radically, allow characters to buy back white stones (with the same restrictions as to attack type) at a cost of 3 red energy per white stone recovered.
4) Introduce 'drama stones' or the equivalent, with one of their possible uses being immediate healing (of 1 white stone) or regeneration (3 red at a time?). They could also have other uses, ranging from a free modifier stone, to extra panels on a page, to a 'splash page' (you get to act while everybody else just waits around till the next whole page - unless they match your drama stone use and you've got a faceoff across two whole pages). Drama stone healing would work on any kind of damage, on the 'it's just a flesh wound' theory.
5) Multiply either total energy or regeneration, or both, by some multiple (e.g., x2 gives 18 energy and 6 regeneration for a Durability of 3 - perhaps to much).
6) Have everyone pay double for Intelligence, and *everybody* gets both an Intelligence energy pool and a Durability energy pool. Normally, you can only apply stones from the Intelligence pool to mental actions (still limited to two Actions/panel, too), but if you drop to 0 in your Durability pool, you can pull a 'willpower' action and start burning Intelligence stones instead. Use 'em all up, and fall unconscious.
7) Allow some sort of 'energy debt', with a penalty afterwards similar to Accumulate Energy or Overstrain.
Just some random thoughts....
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Post by i3ullseye on Jun 9, 2003 15:21:18 GMT -5
Or allow people to take a breather. Give them double normal recovery on any panel follwing one where they assign NO stones and just take a deep breath. Talking being about the most they can do.
Example... Normal recovery is 3.... but this turn they recover 3 and decide to take a breahter. They do absolutely nothing. They are quite vulnerable, and if they are attacked and Reflexive Dodge is used... then no double recovery for them.
If they CAN stay the whole round and spend nothing, then the FOLLOWING turn, give them double recovery.
Spent... all Energy gone... Takes a breather... recovers normal 3 and spends NO stones on the panel... Back into the fray... his recovery for THIS panel is now 6, double his normal.
Or something like this. But honestly if you reward stones as suggested for creative actions and such, recovery and stone conservation does NOT become such a big deal. I think the system needs very little tweaking, and this taking a breather would be more than enough to compensate.
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Post by stephentihor on Jun 16, 2003 23:12:01 GMT -5
Hmmm. While I like extra energy it is the intention of the game for people to burn out their stones early and fight dry or get hit a lot and whittled down but have some saved. or just buy regeneration. I know that most of the playtesters built their characters with much more energy than Evan liked to.
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Post by ds on Jun 17, 2003 8:30:16 GMT -5
Well, in part that's cause the way SitMods are supposed to come into play isn't well explained, and the explanation isn't well integerated into the book. So, they just sorta exist- people reading the book realize this, but get no feel for how common they are. Thus, erring on the side of caution, they hand GP stones out rarely.
Of course, it's also in part because Energy serves as a functional cap on How Much You Can Do. Evan should have perhaps taken note that the playtesters felt it neccesary to buy more energy than he felt was reasonable, and retooled the game a bit- made Specialities something that provide bonus GP stones, reduce the cost of Modifiers, more clearly explain equipment modifiers.
I'd contrast Marvel's system with, say, Riddle of Steel- both have a similiar resource management aspect to them, but Riddle refreshes very differently. Instead of a constant but slow decline in your regen rate, every other round carries you back to your max.
Things that presently are 'committed' stones just reduce your total refreshed energy by twice the number of committed stones.
Hm. This bears looking into... Riddle of Marvel...
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Post by ArtOfMagic on Feb 9, 2004 11:41:36 GMT -5
(Name and, honestly, idea stolen largely from Exalted, Nobilis and Buffy) Note- Challenges should no longer give bonus stones in character creation- instead, they should be taken as a means of gaining Drama stones more easily. So we have been reading Nobilis. This is a fact that none can deny: the way challenges are handled in Nobilis, is the single most greatest and innovative rule there has ever been in any rp game ever. perhaps greatest ever will be. Anything less is a lie and blasthemy. There will always be debate if this or that challenge is really worth that point value, how this player took this and that disadvantage just because it's minor inconvenience but a great point pool. In nobilis, if it's not a problem, you do not get any points, and the more often it's a problem, more often you gain from it. A better motivator for players to take horrible limitations, while they get zero points from them, on character creation. Actually, characters are greatly hindered without any challenges! Ingenious, Reed Richards level. But what does this have to do with exalted or Buffy? Exalted I know, buffy not.
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Post by ArtOfMagic on Feb 9, 2004 11:43:55 GMT -5
I am not sure I like it that much. A lot of this can already be done with certain powers and modifiers. Luck, hexes, etc.... and I CERTAINLY don't like the idea of challenges not giving you character creation stones. It just doesn't feel very comic book to me. Also, the sontaneously 'heal' is very much out of place in comics. There are those that can heal, and those that get hurt. None of those hurt ever spontaneously heal. This MIGHT not be bad for a specific character to be built on, especially one faith based. But I don't like it for the game as a whole. Come on! not comic like? That guy just shot me with a gun, but I'm fine, it was just a flesh wound. See the Arnolds last action hero or what ever that movie was. Idea was not 'spontanious' healing, but 'just a flesh wound' effect, you did not damage your self as badly as you should, last comic I read Hulk was battering a mere human, captain amerika, but he was fine afterwards. How lucky was that?
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Post by ArtOfMagic on Feb 9, 2004 11:49:12 GMT -5
Again, great concept.... for a character. I just don't see me ever adding it as a mechanic to the core of the game for everyone to use. I think it would work better in a powerless game... one where people are not already capable of throwing busses. Well, Adventure! is a game like that! and you know what, it has a Drama point system! It's called Drama point system! But, Adventure is not powerless game, just lower power game. an Adventure(!) game.
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Post by piratespice on Feb 9, 2004 22:31:05 GMT -5
I like this system a lot. Every game I've seen that uses an encouragement system like this for its "Challenges" works beautifully (at least in that particular department). The main benefit isn't that you get extra energy, its that you have a system that actually encourages people to roleplay their disadvantages. Even better if you make Challenges entirely voluntary. You don't get screwed unless you want to (aka "you need Drama Stones). This saves the GM from having to remember everyone's Challenges, and entirely deflates the ability of a powergamer to just "forget" about certain Challenges when they would otherwise screw him. Fine, he can forget them whenever he wants, but he'll never benefit from them. Now, even a bad roleplayer is encouraged to play up some weaknesses and depth to his character. Well done, DS. I'm ashamed I didn't implement this first.
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Post by dagreatjl on Feb 9, 2004 22:52:28 GMT -5
First off, don't take what I'm saying as suggesting I think your idea is bad, par say. I don't. What I do intent to suggest is that it already exists, after a fashion.
Situation Modifiers? Seriously, read a couple of them. +2 stones from the GP for "The Shot that Counts". What the hell does that mean? To me, it means the attack that's really cool, that someone is pretty much putting their all into, and could make or break the day. There are a number of other Sit Mods that are similiar, ie rewarded when they do something cool. One of these is a Sit Mod bonus for playing up their challenges. So, to summarize, your desire to utilize the idea behind Drama Points, Plot Points, and many other such metagame mechanics is sound, and the writers of the game are way ahead of you. IMNSHO.
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Post by wayne on Feb 10, 2004 2:56:00 GMT -5
You know, having this thread pop back up, and reading it again, I have to say, I like a couple of DS' and Vitruvian's suggestions: 1) The Drama stones. With many players, not playing up disadvantages is VERY common. Either they don't want to (they only bought Challenges they thought wouldn't have immediate/constant effects so they could overpower their character), or they just forget, or it's rarely feasible to play up. (-3 for being a Mutant, IMO, seems a bit much. How many times is your mutanthood supposed to pop up? Every issue? That seems like overkill.) 2) The mandatory Intelligence-energy, so that players would have two energy pools. I like this for a number of reasons: - It makes sense. I understand that using your standard energy pool to fuel things like Social Skills is simpler, but I REEEEALLY hate doing it, both as a player (boy, that conversation winded me!) and as a GM (they're dumping all their stones--9 from *Durability*--into Social Skills + Concentration? Uh-huh.)
- It reduces the need many players feel to have high Durabilities or Healing Factors for every character.
- It makes Intelligence more important for EVERY character, not just the Intelligence-fueled ones.
- It introduces both the "willpower" aspect (nice) and the possibility of pushing yourself *beyond* the mere "exhaustion" we usually encounter, to actually collapsing after making your moves. Very cool.
- It opens up some other possibilities since your mental effort and physical effort are separated. I've got some ideas forming on this, but it'll take a little bit for me to be able to articulate them.
-Wayne
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