Alternative Cyclops

[bootmobile]

I feel that the write up of Mr. Summers in the game guide is very weak. In fact he is the weakest character in the book (in terms of stones cost). No a fair treatment of one of the longest running and most experienced mutants in the MU.

Show here is my interpretation, tell me what you think. Assume the same specialtes and equipment as in the book. Changing the Force Blat to a mastery may seem like a cheap move but I think itrepresents Cyke's power as essentially an energy conductor and converter better. At the bottom is a new option for the power that further expands upon this aspect of his powers in my mnd.

BTW, as is this is 42-43 stones or so. The option at the bottom would add 5 or 10 more.

CYCLOPS

Int: 4
Str: 2
Agi: 2
Spd: 2
Dur: 4

Health/Energy: 4/12

Actions

Close Combat - 5
(Agility bonus)

Ranged Combat - 2

Leadeship - 7

Vehicles - 5

Technology - 4
(Intelligence bonus)

Social Skills - 4

Telepathy - 7
(Int bonus)
~Can't Read Minds
~Telepathic communication
~Only works with Jean Grey

Energy Channelling (Mastery) - 7
~Optic Blast, 2x damage.
~Regenerate +1/Panel when in sunlight.
~Power uncontrolled w/o visor or sunglasses.
(note i took out the "can't be improved" disadvantage)

Modifiers

Mental Defence [+2]

Energy Defence [+2]

Reflexive Dodge [+2]

Targeting [+4] with Optic Blasts only.

Is immune to his own energy blasts and those of his brother.


New Option: Energy Conversion
~Put Stones into absorbing, you can absorb up to this number of
stones that Panel/Page. These stones do not count towards your limit
per Panel for the mastery action.
~Add a number of free stones from the general pool into an optic
blast equal to the stones absorbed.

So to give an example: Cyke is facng Apocalypse in the big A's lair.
Cyke places 7 stones into his Channelling Action and 5 stones into
absorbing. In his panel Mr. Summers grabs hold of one of Apocalypse's
base's power generators, a 6 stone power source. Cyke absorbs 5 stone
from the generator and takes 1 stone of damage; he now unleashes the
7 stones in his mastery action as an optic blast, adding 5 free
stones from the absorption and 4 stones from his targeting modifier,
for a total of a 16-stone optic blast. Apocalypse is in trouble.

[Rushlock]

First let me say I agree Cyclops is underpowered as currently written. But let me critique about a few points of your write up.

Durabilty:4

That's enhanced human level. Cyclops isn't that at all. Though I'm sure you just did it to balance his recovery rate.

Telepathy:7

While I understand what your trying to represent here, I think it would be better done as a modifier. Similar to the one listed under Wolfsbane's link to Moonstar.

Mastery:

I think it should stay as a force blast, imo.

Energy Defense

Can't really comment on it, as I'm not sure why you gave it to him at all.

Reflexive Dodge

Either his is too high, or Wolverine's is too low. He should't dodge better than Logan. I think +1 suffices for Scott here.

The Absorbtion Option

I don't see this one at all, seeing as he doesn't do this either. Even your example is unprecidented.



PROS: Not to sound all negative, lol, so I'll point out what I really liked/agreed with.

Int:4
Targetting, I'd have put +3 at most though.
Leadership getting up'd is good.

[bootmobile]

Don't worry about sounding negative, I expected to hear some disagreement about this version. So no worries. I'll admit that to some extent I was trying to fll up 40 stones worth of stuff.

I don't know if the current rationale for Cyclops' power is the same as it used to be or not. I haven't read the comics in 7-8 years. However, in the old days Cyclops (and Havok for that matter) is a kind of energy battery/superconductor. His power works by subconsciously soaking up the energy around him and channelling it as Optic Blasts. Sunlight in particular powers his blasts. This may not be the line on his powers now but it certainly is how they were explained in the past, so that is why I took the mastery/channelling route.

The optional option at the end follows from this and I didn't dream up that example, it happened (although it may have been Sinister not Apocalypse, it has been 12-15 years since I read the comic in question.) Further, this aspect of cyclops' power was included in his write-up in at least two products for the old TSR MArvel Super Heroes. He could make a Red Psyche FEAT to convert any energy into an Optic Blast.

Also, the cost for the power as he has it now is the same as the one in the game guide but the Action Number is less and all this does differently is giv him +1 regeneration / panel in sunlight.

About a couple of the specific issues.

You're right about the Durabilitybeing too high, but given the mechanics of the game (energy) it seemed only fair, plus I had all those extra stones lying around. The game and the write ups really cheats any character who, in the comics, can't take an inhuman amount of damage.

About the telepathy: action, modifier it makes no difference to me. just like that he has to put real effort into talking to her when she's not close by. This way he can conceivably talk to her when she is almost anywhere if he just puts enough effort into it. But like I said it makes little difference. It only costs 2 stones.

The energy defence is a bit of a stretch I admit. But again the explaination of Scott's powers that I am familiar with described a low intensity energy field being continually given of by his body and that it is this field which counters the energy of Havok (ad visa versa). So that is where it came from, if Cyke has this field which completely counters his brother's energy, maybe it could do a little bit against all energy. It is a stretch but Cyke needs all the help he can get.

The dodge and targeting being a point too high. Well maybe but I did have a lot of extra stones. In some versions of Cyclops in the old MSH game he had specialization with his blast (a large bonus) and maybe that colored the number i gave Targeting. The dodge still seems only fair to me. Logan is as good or better at dodging because he has more energy to throw into defence and plus he can take more. Also, in the comics cyclops either dodges a blast or gets taken out half the time and so ends up avoiding a fair number of attacks. Wolvie tends to get hit a lot and to be honest I don't see him doing all that much dodging out of the way when I'm reading the comics.

See a lot of this may not be spot on in representing literally Cyke's abilities but I think the couple exagerations are necessary to make the character function in the game as well as he does in the books. In other words I am going for improved playability more than 100% accuracy. That said lowering the Durability and the Targeting by 1 each is pretty reasonable but I think the +2 dodge, the +1 regereneration/panel and even Energy Defence go a long way toward making Cyclops a viable character to play alongside the other characters as presented in the game.

I still really like this version though. I might lower the targeting by 1 though. The Durability I'll keep, even if it is purposely inaccurate for game mechanic issues.

PS I gave him the same leadeship as the book does.

[Rushlock]

Got his and Cap's leaderships backward, opps.

I like how you rationalize most of it, so here's a few things I'm still questioning...


I can agree with the +1 regen for sunlight and such, as that makes sense, and I remember similar info in comics. The part about him absorbing energy and as your example indicated, may have happened, but only once or maximum twice in comics....ever. So I don't think it's warrented here. Besides, with the 4 DUR and +1 regen, that's enough back a turn.


I see your point on the Telepathy, so he has to use more effort to use it at a greater range. So long as he cannot use it for any other purpose, it'd be fine. Lastly, TP gives +X Mental Defense, him not having that could be a disadvantage to lower cost....

About the Energy Defense:

It's merely that Havok and Cyclops are immune to each other's powers, and not that there's a field protecting them. They still take the brunt and force of the shot, it merely doesn't hurt them. That's why their clothes are destroyed when they fight, if there were a field, that wouldn't happen. Besides, they are not protected from other's energy attacks, they are just immune to each others.

Overall I still like Force Blast over the idea of a Mastery, mainly because the way you have him written up, he's able to do a full-power blast EVERY panel, which is way out of proportion. Uninjured, he gets 5 if in sunlight, +4 for targetting. That's an attack of 9 minimum, constantly....

Don't worry about trying to spend 40 stones making him. Make him accurately, then go back and add up the cost, as it doesn't matter what it totals to, if it's a more accurate write-up.

[bootmobile]

More good points, I am glad I've stumbled on this opportunity to talk some of these issues over!

I see your point on the Telepathy, so he has to use more effort to use it at a greater range. So long as he cannot use it for any other purpose, it'd be fine. Lastly, TP gives +X Mental Defense, him not having that could be a disadvantage to lower cost....

True.

About the absorbing/conversion thing, the fact that he has only done it a handful of times is why I put it as an option, separate from the rest of the character. If someone remembers this aspect of the character and wants to incorporate it, they can.

About the Energy Defense: ...

Well I did say it was a stretch. But I chose to in clude this for a reason, playability. I'll expand on that point a little later.

Overall I still like Force Blast over the idea of a Mastery, mainly because the way you have him written up, he's able to do a full-power blast EVERY panel, which is way out of proportion. Uninjured, he gets 5 if in sunlight, +4 for targetting. That's an attack of 9 minimum, constantly....

Well you do have a good point or two here, yet I still disagree mostly. I do think I'll lower the targeting to +3 though. For one thing to get the 9 stone blast every panel he would have to do nothing else, like defend himself. See the biggest problem for energy starved pregenerated characters like Cyclops is they cannot attack and defend at the same time. And come on a defense of less than 4 and you're begging to get clobbered (why I dumped the dodge to +2, rather than the more "accurate" +1). Also, Cyclops is probably putting stones into Leadership in at least 1 out of every two or three panels. I have often seen him issuing orders, even as he fires off a blast and defends himself.

Don't worry about trying to spend 40 stones making him. Make him accurately, then go back and add up the cost, as it doesn't matter what it totals to, if it's a more accurate write-up.

Well I wasn't trying to make him a 40-stone character so much as trying to make at least as good as a starting character. See I know what you mean about accuracy first and while it is nice to see each character stated out to 100% accuracy according to the standards set in the D&R chart so we can compare them, it does not mean the most "accurate" presentation of a character will be the best representation of the characters abilities once the game starts.

I'll try to explain what I mean by this using Cyke for examples. A Cyclops w/o tageting, w/o reflexive dodge, and without an enhanced energy recovery could not do the things he does in the comics. Any 40-point character my players might make could wipe the floor with the Cyclops presented in the game guide and if I didn't upgrade him in this somewhat exaggerated fashion my version of Cyclops would be likewise weak. You speak of accuracy but a Cyclops that is that underpowered is not accurate. Some of the exaggerations I have used will, I believe, simply allow someone playing Cyclops to play him as being able to do all things he can do in the books.

You see I loved (and still love) the old MSH game but the worst thing about it was that the characters from the comics were impossible to balance. With each other and with characters your players would generate themselves. Most were horribly underpowered (includes most of the X-Men, avengers, and their foes), while others were way too powerful to integrate (Iron Man, Thor, Silver Surfer, etc). In the old game we used very few pregenerated characters because they were either to powerful or not powerful enough to balance out with the other players which is not much fun for someone in each instance. I didn't even use that many pregenerated NPCs/viallains because either the players would trounce them or they would be near invinceable. This problem carries over into this new game.

You see the biggest problems people have with this new game seem to be the problems with certain characters having tons of energy and/or modifiers while others struggle to do anything of constequence each Panel. But I don't think this is nearly as big a problem with new characters because you make your characters aware of how the system works and make sure to provide them with enough energy and/or modifiers to be effective. Plus it is very difficult to make characters who are too overbalancing. You really can't have a lot of modifiers, a lot of energy, good abilities and good actions all at once.

To take the argument from another direction, how do you have your players play pregenerated characters when they are so out of balance. Say I want to play Cyclops and the rest of the group are generting their own 40-stone characters. They'll be significantly better than I am. That doesn't seem right, especially because Cyclops should be much better than a bunch of new to the scene heroes and further should be the the leader. Look at from the other direction, no one could ever play say Thor or even Rogue with a group of 40-stone characters as they would dominate game play, each costs more than twice as many stones as everyone else.

You see I am more interested in making a playable representation of a character than a 100% "accurate" one. I put accurate in quotes because I refer to assigning values to stats according to the D&R chart that are appropriate to the character. Does Cyclops have a 4 Durability according to the definitions in the D&R chart? No, but giving him the 4 fixes a lot of the problems of how he performs during game play.

I'm just approaching the stats with a different philosophy. Yes make up the character as accurately as you can but then you'll most likely need to fudge the numbers to make the character playable in the game. Remember by definition the Marvel Universe of your campaign is analternate one to that of the comicbooks, there's no reason your Cyclops or your Gambit couldn't have slightly different stats than those of the game guide if it makes the character fit your campaign better.

Whew, that was long.

[bootmobile]

I'll probably tweak the stats a bit soon. Lower his targeting by 1 and I think raise his vehicles 1 or 2 (he is supposed to be a gifted pilot yet many characters have 5).

Maybe I'll even make another change or two. Like lowering the Durability back to 3 and improving his energy recovery some other way. Like perhaps the energy channelling could give him a +1/panel in general and an additional +1/panel in sunlight?

[Rushlock]

All very good posts. One thing I'd disagree with though, you said that even though he'd be able to a 9 stone blast every panel, he still wouldn't be able to attack AND defend with it, as if that were a bad thing. He (and most characters as a whole) should'nt be able to have a significant attack and defense in the same panel.

There should be panels when he does nothing but bark orders. Some he's doing a powerful blast against an opponent, and others where he's defending against an attack.

With your current write-up, he's never tired. There should be panels (1 of every 3 I'd say) where he and other charcters do nothing, because they're getting energy back. I understand players aren't big on having to 'pass' on their turn to rest, but it's what makes the game so realistic in combat, in my opinion.

Overall, I think this is less an issue of a characer write-up, and more about playing style, which I'm sure is different everywhere, lol.

[bootmobile]

Good point. I think I'll take a second stab at this, at about 8 or 9 tenths.

I might go back to the optic blast being packaged as a force blast action, so I thought I might take the "+1 energy / Panel" option of the mastery and make it its own action as per the rule in the X-Men Guide. Trouble is this option does not require an action number and so must be made into a modifier. Does anyone have any advise or opinions on what such a modifier should cost?

[Rushlock]

Sunfire has that option, it may be listed in the book. Possible under Masteries section, I'll look for it later today.