|
Post by piratespice on Aug 30, 2006 4:36:54 GMT -5
I think the biggest problem with the Cop Action is that it makes every cop the same supercop by having every specialty available, when we all know there are many different, nonoverlapping roles within a police department. SWAT teams aren't detectives or interrogators, snipers aren't negotiators, animal handlers aren't sharpshooters, and so on. I think one should buy the appropriate actions for one's role. I tend to agree that the average cop NPC should take the appropriate Actions (which, mind you, are usually just as broad and cover many specialties that they shouldn't have...its just the nature of the system). But the average PC has better things to spend his limited Action Boxes on. Most PC cops are going to be "supercops," as it should be.
|
|
|
Post by pgholland on Aug 30, 2006 4:57:40 GMT -5
You're right about there being different jobs as a Police Officer HOWEVER every police officer recieves the same basic training, no matter where they may end up three years down the line, and the cop action just covers those basics, so actually most cops would probably have it at a low number because they are cops.
|
|
|
Post by vicsage on Aug 30, 2006 10:36:47 GMT -5
You're right about there being different jobs as a Police Officer HOWEVER every police officer recieves the same basic training, no matter where they may end up three years down the line, and the cop action just covers those basics, so actually most cops would probably have it at a low number because they are cops. The problem still exists then--you can't buy this package and have a low Action Number for one specialty and a high one for another. You are equally good or bad at all of them.
|
|
|
Post by pgholland on Aug 30, 2006 10:57:24 GMT -5
Yeh and...? If you are playing a member of a SWAT team how often are you going to use any of the other skills? All you'll ever do is firearms attacks, i would probably put in a write up of this ability that if an officer specialises then they may actually take a -1 penalty. And in case you haven't noticed you don't HAVE to take all the specialities, they just give you a +1 situational bonus (of course not if you you follow the above suggestion).
|
|
|
Post by vicsage on Aug 30, 2006 12:09:29 GMT -5
Yeh and...? If you are playing a member of a SWAT team how often are you going to use any of the other skills? All you'll ever do is firearms attacks, i would probably put in a write up of this ability that if an officer specialises then they may actually take a -1 penalty. And in case you haven't noticed you don't HAVE to take all the specialities, they just give you a +1 situational bonus (of course not if you you follow the above suggestion). If you're a SWAT member who is never going to use the other skills, why would you need a Cop Action instead of Ranged Combat? You are merely leaping from the question and landing in a quagmire. Anytime you need to add extra rules (-1 to this, -1 to that, depending on if it's Tuesday or she's a Hungarian) to make something work, you're going down the wrong path.
|
|
|
Post by pgholland on Aug 30, 2006 12:30:37 GMT -5
No because to join a SWAT team you have to have spent at least 2 years on active duty as a beat officer, therefore you would have those skills. Any member of the police force who actually is on active duty has that training, so a single action makes much more sense.
|
|
|
Post by vicsage on Aug 30, 2006 14:53:55 GMT -5
You're still avoiding the question, which is why is your SWAT officer equally talented at all his specialities rather than superior at the ones he is supposedly expert at and simply well-trained at the rest? He's gonna wind up an expert Profiler and Sniper and Negotiator? Please. That's what Cop Action opens up, and you know players will take advantage of it. It would be better to buy your Ranged Combat and then your other skills to round him out. The Cop Action just seems like a way for power gamers to sneak extra actions onto a character sheet.
|
|
|
Post by pgholland on Aug 30, 2006 15:00:34 GMT -5
Ok no he wouldn't he wouldn't take those specialities therefore limiting him straight away. Plus you may be a cynic and a poor GM but i believe in my players they don't try and break the system, and if they sometimes do something against their concept i point them back in the right direction- that's what being a good GM is about.
|
|
|
Post by vicsage on Aug 30, 2006 15:11:07 GMT -5
So basically I'm right but must be a poor GM for seeing the flaws in the new Action?
If you accept the Action as written[/u], you can't justify to a player that no, you can't choose the specialties you want from the list--that's a poor GM.
And you've essentially admitted that the Action is deeply flawed if you aren't going to allow it to be used as written.
I could MAYBE see separate actions for Beat Cop, Police Detective, SWAT Team, but not all lumped together and undifferentiated.
|
|
|
Post by pgholland on Aug 30, 2006 15:19:55 GMT -5
If you look i have never said i;m not going to use it as written, its a very useful and well thought out action- what i'm saying is just because you CAN choose specialities doesn't mean you HAVE to in fact most people only choose the few that apply to their concept. So a SWAT team member might choose firearms related specialities, meaning he's not as good at the other parts of Cop.
|
|
|
Post by vicsage on Aug 30, 2006 15:34:29 GMT -5
So the Cop Action only works if people ignore most of it? That means it doesn't work well.
|
|
|
Post by pgholland on Aug 30, 2006 15:36:15 GMT -5
What? Are you even reading my posts? What i'm saying is not everyone takes every available speciality, just because you don't have it as a speciality doesn't mean you can't do it as an action, just means you don't get a +1 bonus!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by vicsage on Aug 30, 2006 15:50:13 GMT -5
You seem to completely misunderstand the point of my objections and never address the objections I raise and dodge the question, so I'm just gonna drop it altogether. Nice debating with you. Enjoy your SWAT Team members who are also expert Profilers! Just noticed you're 18. That explains a lot.
|
|
|
Post by pgholland on Aug 30, 2006 16:15:09 GMT -5
What that i can accept the fact that sometimes i'm wrong rather than going around lording over it all. And no, SWAT team members wouldn't be expert profilers even with this action, what they would have though is years of experience dealing with crime and being able to think ahead, very similar to profiling, so before you go around being the king, which i've seen you doing on here a lot, start thinking about this as a game- it's meant to be fun, it's not meant for rules lawyers and cynics.
|
|
|
Post by vicsage on Aug 30, 2006 17:48:18 GMT -5
I bow to your obvious superiority.
|
|