Expanding the 9-action limit

[meanb0b]

I was curious if there was some way that one could allow a character to obtain more action boxes, exceeding the 9-box limit. If a character with an intelligence of 1 could keep track of only nine actions, why is a character with an intelligence of 6 also limited? Thanks.

[thepirateking]

in here that rule all depend s on the GM running the game. Plus i think action is not limited to Int. his physical ability counts too.

[thunderball]

In the books they did't always get it right, too, if I counted correctly Apocalypse has 10 Action Boxes.

[piratespice]

I'm pretty sure Apocalypse is the only one (and unnecessarily so, given the ease of blending some of his Actions).

In any event, the 9-Action limit isn't about what a character can keep track of. Its about keeping the game simple, and avoiding characters with a laundry list of powers. It doesn't really keep characters balanced, so much as preventing players from making characters so bloated that it takes ten minutes to decide every action. Its also about making the character sheet functional and interactive (which I like).

Basically, you won't break anything by allowing more than 9 Actions. I'd just be cautious, for the reasons listed above.

[i3ullseye]

Working toward merging actions is part of the character development map of the game however. From the GM perspective, you really don't want any one character to be able to do everything in every situation that comes up. The problem with Ninjas isn't their combat effectiveness... though it is indeeed there... or the cost... because even at a savings it can get expensive. But you now have 1 AR that can be used for WAY mroe situations than many others. How do you challenge a group with 3 Ninjas? One of them is bound to pick the lock, one is bound to figure out the clue, one is bound to melee down the perp, etc....

So the 9 action limit is really in place to make sure one character can't multitask every action that arises in the game. It is one of the items that makes team work actually useful in the game.

Mergin an action has it's own inherent advantages and limitations also. While a merged action can be used for many more things than either single action, it is also a single action, so it can only combine with other actiosn as a single number now. This doesn't seem liek a disadvantage, but sometimes when you want to do some tricky combined actions, sometimes the seperate actions is more effective stones wise.

[beyonder]

That's the first time I've ever heard a good reason for the 9-Action limit: it just seemed artificial and pointless to me until now. Well spoken, y'all.

[meanb0b]

I get it now. Thanks.

[Ricochet]

meanb0b said:

I was curious if there was some way that one could allow a character to obtain more action boxes, exceeding the 9-box limit.

Yes, there is a way. Photographic reflexes + Photographic memory.
Even though you'd still have 9 boxes to allocate stones in, you'd have all these actions that you can choose from only by observing them. And it would only cost you 12w2r!

[i3ullseye]

Sure Ricochet, but again... it all falls under just 1 action, for the stones you have in it, to divide as you may. It can't be 2 seperate actions at your AR each and then combined for effect for example.

Power Armor already gets around the 9 action limit in ways, and even then you can see it's inherent advantages and disadvantages. If youw ant to justify doing more, you often come to the realization that some things are very similar to others. Once you are at this point, then each 'action' just becomes a line underneath the main source action. So while your knowledge of Astrophysics, Physics, Atronomy and Quantum Physics can be impressive, you won't want them taking up 4 spots. Thats where a single Science skill comes into play. Now it is one action, with lines for each Science.

So you pilot a spacecraft also... and now you have Hyperspace Navigation and Starship Weapons Systems. Pilot + Nav + Weapons is 3 more Actions on TOP of Sciences. But if you were to combine this into Starship Captain, you can have ALL these items legitemately under one action as lines. Thats what you work toward in this system really.

You can't combine your Astrophysics with Hyperspace Navigation any longer however, which is one of the limitations of the combined action. You also can only merge actions when it logically makes sense, and all actions will need to be the same rank to merge them. I have always considered that they will default to the lowest action rank of all the items if they are not equal and still allow it.

But it is the combining of actions that really needs to me kept in check with this. If you ever want your Piloting AR to combine with your Starship Weapons rank for a strafing pass... they need to remain seperate actions.

And yes... I think most people overlook the power of combining actions in this game system, and just assume everything they do needs to be up near 8 or 9 stones to be effective. And thats basically wrong. Close Combat -w- strength at 10 total is nice. But a 4 Close Combat, with a 4 Str ... and a 6 Agility certainly shoudl be able to overcome it. And when combining, you have 12 stones to make sure you do.

[vicsage]

Does anybody really need more than nine Actions? That's not even counting equipment, modifiers, etc. Nine Actions is plenty.

[turnagealfonsojermaine]

I am thinking of a character that lived a hard life! He & his cousins ( or perhaps siblings) have been chased around the country by Magneto & Apokolypse because they have powerful uinque abilities! Magneto & AP think they can rule the world using these special mutants! With them so special could/would you amke them even if they are 40s more than 9 thanks!

[Stark]

My reputation is not to make anymore on this board regarding my disliking of the 9 action boxes limit, as I am one of its most devoted adversaries.

I won't repeat all I said about it because I already wrote it like 3 times in other threads, but what I say is, it's not much more complicated to add more than 9 action boxes than it is to allow merging actions.

IMO, there are many concepts, without exagerating, that could use more than 9 action boxes for actions which aren't always easy to merge. I know, I've done several. One of my favored current characters is Poltergeist, a mutagenic with powers coming from ghosts, like phase shift, Invisibility, Fear, Create illusions, Telekinesis... add that with a few combat skills, some social skills and anything else outside of that and you can easily exceed 9.

Some characters from DC/Marvel vastly exceed the 9 action boxes limit as well, and merging most of them doesn't make any sense.

Doctor Doom, for example, is the runner-up for the mantle of Sorceror Supreme AND the world's 3rd or 4th best inventor, and he has a Powered armor. You can blow up the 9 actions limit with such an idea, and the CAD in the book very poorly reflect all that Doom is.

Another of my favored characters is Raven from Teen Titans. In WK's game, we are playing at a time where she has lost most of her sorcery powers, leaving her only with demonic powers. I have made a decent CAD, respected the 9 actions limit rule (which WK follows) and managed to do something good, though she lacked Phase shift which she should have had. Good for me... but if we were playing at a time where she would have had her Sorcery powers, I wouldn't have had half enough Action boxes, unless I wrote most of her so-called "demonic powers" as part of her spells, which is just wrong for who knows about her.
______________________________________________________________________________

Anyway.... I'm not wanting to re-start an argument, I just wanted to say that IT IS POSSIBLE to play with only 9 action boxes in most situations, and sometimes even preferable.

However, it doesn't hurt much not to limit oneself in such a way, and sometimes it's also preferable.

All in all, it depends about the type of game, the players, their ideas and in the end, the GM.

Thanks for listening and have a good day.
--------------------------------------------------------

Okay, I feel better now. ;D

Sorry to disagree, but I just needed to say it. I'll stop bothering you guys now. ^_^

[Jet]

Asmo, remember Jet from Young Avengers? To fully represent the whole character concept, I'd have to use at least 12 boxes to cover it all. After all, I left things like Black Ops (which he could use and should have), and lets not forget bionic arm, which just hungers for upgrades.

[Stark]

That's right.

Jet, like many other possible concepts could use more than 9 action boxes.

[Brainstem]

*shrug* I have a feeling a lot of those issues can be skirted through, as i3ullseye said. For example, Asmodeus, Poultergeist could probably be whipped into a Master of Spirits or something with his Force Blast acting as Fear, Phase Shift as the Transform into Element, and Illusions/TK into Create/Manipulate (creating ghostly images/calling on ghosts to move stuff around for you). From there, you just have to make Invisibility its own Action (maybe just work it into Transform as well) and you're set! Granted, I don't really know anything about the character, but these fixes seem like they should work well.