New Advantage: Bonus Combination

[Pope Mega Force]

This is something that I thought of and I've done it on the boards a couple of times. Combining your weapon and ability bonuses. So with a strength of 3 and a dagger (+2) as well as a close combat of 3, I could put 6 stones into close combat as well as add the +2 from the dagger for an overall attack of 8 stones.

The advantage is +3. Or +2 depending on what people think.

[malice]

This isn't really a Custom Rule, the +3 is just what you get when you take "No Bonus" (-2 to cost level) and "Add Extra Ability Bonus/Weapon Modifier" (+5 to cost level).

That being said I don't see anything wrong with it being one advantage, I just wasn't sure if you were mistaken that it was a house rule.

[thedragonmaster]

Actually, he is still taking a strength bonus with close combat. According to the core book, close combat comes with: "your choice of any one Ability Bonus AND a Weapon Modifier, but you can only use one at a time unless you pay for an extra Advantage" (emphasis mine). Which means to use them together you have to pay for the extra weapon modifier. If he had taken "No Bonus" then that would mean giving up the Ability bonus.

Really it would just be one advantage, taken to allow you to use the two advantages together. Unless the Ability bonus is tied into that weapon (as in, he can't use the Ability bonus without that weapon), in which case the Ability bonus would be charged only as part of the price of creation for that weapon.

[malice]

I'm pretty sure they meant us to do it the way I suggested. They go on to say you can add an EXTRA ability bonus or weapon modifier if you choose. Seperate mention implies seperate subjects, i.e. seperate advantages.

[Brainstem]

Yeah, I was thinking about something like this as well. It wouldn't make sense to have to pay the full +5 to get it (as you aren't training yourself to wield a second weapon or anything, and your CC already assumes you know how to wield a weapon), but it shouldn't be free based on the writing in the book.

[thedragonmaster]

I still say go with the rules as written, which is to say you have both a weapon and ability bonus automatically, but can only use them together if you pay for an extra advantage. In other words if you have a +2 ability bonus, and a +3 weapon modifier, you would use the +3 weapon modifier (since it was higher) until you drop/loose/whatever the weapon, then you switch over to the ability bonus. If your CC AN is 3, then you would have an effective AN of 6 until you loos the weapon, then you'd have an effective AN of 5. However if you purchase the extra Advantage, you get to use both of those Advantages together, giving you an effective AN of 8, with 2 of those stones for free (unless I've misunderstood the weapon modifier, if so let me know, it hasn't come up yet in any game I've played, but don't want to count on it going into a battle and find I was wrong). To my mind it is only fair. Thinking in terms of mechanics, you are paying more to get free stones to which you could add extra stones of effort from strength, or agility, or ( I suppose) intelligence for greater effect. While I can see where you are coming from, I prefer the tougher choice that having to pay full price for it forces players to make. After all, you are already getting two bonuses (which you are only able to use separately according to the text) for free.

[Scriptus]

brainstem11588 said:

Yeah, I was thinking about something like this as well. It wouldn't make sense to have to pay the full +5 to get it (as you aren't training yourself to wield a second weapon or anything, and your CC already assumes you know how to wield a weapon), but it shouldn't be free based on the writing in the book.

In my mind the issue is with the free stones that come from a weapon along with the ability of an action with an additional ability bonus/weapon mod to be exponentially more effective than a combat action with just one or the other.

Spiderman, Silver Surfer, and Thor are perfect examples. Without Spiderman's additional ability bonus his best attackwith close combat is 8, but with it his best attack is 12. This allows Spiderman to actually have a prayer of doing damage to people like the Hulk and Ultron. Captain America without his shield can't even put 12 stones in his close combat! This is a huge advantage and in my opinion is worth a +5 modifier.

Thor's attack potential moves up from a max of 17 in close combat action to 25 with his Uru hammer. There are VERY FEW characters in the Marvel Universe that could stand up to that kind of assault. Well worth a + 5 to cost level.

Silver Surfer... Well I don't want to go there. He's just as scary as Thor.

My point is that I think that the author's original intent was to make the addition of an extra ability bonus or weapon mod cost +5 and I think that is fair.

[thedragonmaster]

Yeah, what Scriptus said. lol. You have to remember that with murpg that extra stone represents an almost exponential increase in effort (more or less) rather than just a stair step as it might in another system.

[malice]

thedragonmaster said:

Yeah, what Scriptus said. lol. You have to remember that with murpg that extra stone represents an almost exponential increase in effort (more or less) rather than just a stair step as it might in another system.

On the D&R it represents an exponential increase in effort, it does not in execution. 10 red stones of damage does NOT kill the Earth, it doesn't even scratch it really. 10 white stones of damage might, but not 10 red, and 10 red is 10 stones of effort.

Back on topic, here's how it works (I'm not trying to insult anyone, but some choices of words made it difficult to tell if we were on the same page) when you start fiddling with your bonuses:

Close Combat
(Ability Bonus or Weapon Modifier)

Close Combat +3 to cost level
(Ability and Weapon)

Close Combat +5 to cost level
([Abilty and weapon or 2 weapons] OR [Ability and weapon or 2 Abilities)

It's not overpowered or underpriced. It's just fair and it's how the rules work. Ninja still completely rocks all of these and it's as expensive.

[terramax]

malice said:

Close Combat
(Ability Bonus or Weapon Modifier)

Close Combat +3 to cost level
(Ability and Weapon)

Close Combat +5 to cost level
([Abilty and weapon or 2 weapons] OR [Ability and weapon or 2 Abilities)

Why would Ability and Weapon be +3 and +5 to cost level (2 seperate cost levels for the same thing)? And why would 2 weapons or 2 abilities be more than one weapon and one ability?

[malice]

Why wouldn't they be? It's not the same thing, you have more options.

[terramax]

Oh, I see. You can switch during play. I didn't think of it like that before. sorry, I got it now.

[beryl]

malice said:

It's not overpowered or underpriced. It's just fair and it's how the rules work. Ninja still completely rocks all of these and it's as expensive.

Excellent point.

Ninja costs AN+5, and functions as Close Combat, Ranged Combat, (both with Ability+Weapon, or 2xWeapon), Thieving, Black Ops, Assassination, and so on.

Using that as a basis, I'd say that Close Combat (Ability+Weap or 2xWeap) should be cheaper than +5, from a balance standpoint.