Marvel Total Realism (you asked it, you got it!)

[powerfull]

I see a lot of posts here from people trying to impose rules for the marvel system that would make it more balanced or more realistic, or both. I find out most of these rules to be out of concept as far as the marvel universe system goes, and not working very well on their own. But if we add them together, we could create an offshot of marvel, more realistic and balance oriented, for those of you that want to go there. I want from you to post here all the rules that you saw in this forum or that you've thought about yourselves and think that would be worth implementing to such a rules set in order to give a more realistic and balanced feeling to the game. Please don't post messages considering whether or not a marvel game should be realistic and balanced. It has already been stated <<for those that want to go there>>, or for those who would like to help those that want to go there even if they don't plan on sailing them selves. I want to keep this a rules discussion thread. As far as I know the matter has been addressed to death in the General discussion forum.

I will post a *** before every rule that is complete and IMO ready to be incorporated. These rules are of course as open to discussion as tje rest, but I think they make up pretty decent rulings (from a realistic/balanced perspective) and are mostly in need of cost addressing. All the rest are mere suggestions, and in need of serious tuning

1) Seperate energy from durability, or even (for those that REALY want to go there) seperate mental and physical action stones!

2) No stacking bonuses, no stacking powers. No seperate defences, such as toughness + reflexive dodge. only a general defence rating, with several parts. It has been sugested in another post before, and it's a very good rule to use here (although a very bad one to use in the marvel universe as it is IMO). Also, no stacking powers-statistics. If you want your character to be able to grow for example, you should purchase your full str and durability with stones. The growth power could be used as a limitation for either instead of an action (-1 to str and durability costs, must get bigger to use at full rank or something).

3) Melee weapons treated as modifiers. Str + weapon modifier for dammage.

4) No 9 action limit, no combined action boxes. No invention/technology (iron man), no ranged/closed combat (war machine), no ninja actions. You want it, you have to buy (and pay for) it seperately.

5) Captain america's shield is so unbalanced that it actually needs an entry all of it's own. The shield should be at +1 or +2 tops strength modifier. Come on, the guy could never dream of doing dammage to the hulk in the comics. Why is he able to throw the shield at the hulk for 3 white health of dammage here? Also, seperate defence and attack value for weapons (I would pick up an axe to chop at someone rather than C.A's shield any day).

6) No knockout option for weapons and attacks that would be considered <<killing combat>>. A <<cripled>> choise, that stuns you for the same duration as KO (screaming in agony) and also causes a dissability (loss of body part, paralysis, etc) if you don't have a healing factor or something. You will obviously use this if you don't want to die from dammage (Oh my god he cut my arm off!!!)

*** 7) Changing the LOE rule so that it costs more to upgrade more expensive actions. New rule, based on the one presented on Avengers guide, page 45 : To upgrade an action you pay the cost difference between the previous AN and the new one, just like with stones received in the game from challenges. 2 LOE are worth one red stone. Example : Energy blast AN3 cost = 1 white, and AN4 cost = 2 white. So if you want to increase your energy blast AN from 3 to 4, you have to pay one white stone (the difference between the cost of AN3 with AN4) , or 3 red stones, or 6 LOE.

8) New 2x rules. All weapons that are generaly <<killing>> weapons. Not just firearms, but also swords, lasers, axes, bows, grenades, claws, fangs,etc.) do 2x dammage. The KO rule cannot be used when dealt dammage by a <<killing>> attack, so a person is very likely to die if dealt heavy dammage with such a weapon. 3x dammage is reserved for unusually deadly effects (disintergrating attacks,etc). Under the new rules, no 2x toughness is reserved for creatures with either invulnerable anatomies (energy beings, blobs of slime, zombies), or advanced healing factors, indicating the ability to repair (or the total luck of) major organs such as the lungs, the liver, the heart, etc. So, yes hulk is no2x, but the thing or colossus had better tough it out, because if it penetrates, it's gonna hurt like hell. Under the new rule, no2x is available as an option for the various healing factors, and transformation powers.

please add to the list, so we can proceed in working out something. The gloves are off! Do your best! No holding back, no compromise! Put all the realism and balance you ever dreamed of! It's 4am and I must be going to bed.


6/9 , new complete suggestion for 1st paragraph : New revamped rule for energy and health for MTR. Some modifications have to be made. Under the new MTR rule, there is no such thing as intellect based energy. The new rule makes it obsolite. Healing factor also no longer affects recovery of red stones and is -2 value at all levels.

New abilities : ENERGY, and RECOVERY
New concepts: Power reserve, power recovery.

Durability no longer costs 3x. Durability no longer has anything to do with energy or recovery. It's otherwise remains the same.
ENERGY: Costs as a normal ability. ENERGY represents only the maximun number of stones you can hold in each pannel, and does not affect your recovery. For each stone of ENERGY(ability) that you purchase or gain, you allocate either 3 stones of energy to your energy reserve, or 4 stones to your power reserve (explained later).

RECOVERY : Costs as a normal ability. For each stone of RECOVERY (ability) that you purchase or gain, you alocate it either as an energy recovery stone, or a power recovery stone. can choose to either recover a point of energy to your energy reserve each panel, or recover 4 points in 3 pannels (one at pannels 1-2 and two at pannel 3) in your power reserve.

The Power reserve : The power reserve has red stones that can only be used for powers. It can represent many things, such as mental or mystical strength not directly related to one's body, access to cosmic or extraplanar reserves, etc.

ENERGY can be purchased at 0, for 0 stones. You recover stones as usual, but these only last until the end of the round. Useful to describe constracts or automatons that don't tire, but don't build up either. A robot could have energy 0 and recovery 3, meaning that it gets 3 red stones per round. It could perform 3 stone feats all day, but never more than that.

Cad example:

Proffesor Gavier (a very distant cousin of professor Xavier )has a durability of 2 (2 red stones to buy), ENERGY of 5 (3 white stones to buy), with 3 stones allocated to power reserve and 2 stones allocated to his energy reserve, and RECOVERY 4 (2 white stones to buy) with 2 stones allocated to power reserve and 2 to energy reserve). His cad would look something like this :
Durability : 2
ENERGY : 2/3p
RECOVERY : 2/2p

Health : 2
Reserve: 6/12p (meaning 6 energy and 12 power reserve)

Professor Gavier recovers 2 points to his energy reserve per pannel, and 8 points in 3 pannels (2 points at pannel 1 and 3 points at pannel 2 and 3) in his power reserve.

He can use his energy reserve to do whatever he wants. But he can use the Power reserve only to power his telepathy (on any other special power that he has purchased).


7/9 How is damage treated under the new rules : As you get more damaged, your ability to recovery energy suffers. For each health level that you lose, you also subtract one stone from your RECOVERY. This loss affects your energy recovery first, then your power recovey. If both of your recovery ratings have been reduced to zero and you're still not unconcious (If you had a durability of 7 and a recovery of 2 for example) then each additional hit you take, drains 3 points from your reserve (again going from energy first and power later). This helps simulate a lot of different individuals and their reaction to damage. A high durability/low recovery individual, would still have health points and would not be seriously injured, yet his low resolve would make him unable to get his bearing and perform any actions. A low durability/high energy individual would push on even when seriously wounded and would help portrait an individual of great resolve and determination. It would also help simulate individuals that access energies outside their bodies and still have command over them even when seriously injured.

For example, let's assume that professor Gavier from the previous example, takes 1 white stone of dammage from Graveto (a very,VERY distant cousin of Magneto). His recovery (originaly 2/2p) would drop to 1/2p from the damage he received. Although seriously injured, professor Gavier is still a force to be reconned with. Let's think of another example. Paino (a distant cousin of Raino) has a durability of 6, but recovery of 4. If he suffers 4 points of dammage, he's not in very bad shape and still has 2 health left. His recover is now 0 though, and he can't get any energy back until he regains one recovery point. If he suffers another white stone of dammage, he will be drained of 3 energy points (if he still has energy points left). Being a wimp, Paino will probably beg the heroes to stop hurting him any more, if he loses 4 white health points.

Healing factor would give you one point of health and one point of RECOVERY back as indicated. (only if your RECOVERY is damaged) You don't get anything else however (so it would be reasonable to price healing factors at -2 if you use this system). If you want a character that recovers back faster, just buy RECOVERY at a higher rank.

[Beacon]

Total Realism?

Step 1) Ditch the CADs.

Step 2) Put on a silly costume.

Step 3) Go out and fight actual crime.

Yeah, I’ll stick with the “broken” rules for the MURPG

[powerfull]

Well, there SEEM to be a lot of people here interested in upgrading the rules of marvel universe in order to give to it a more balanced and realistic feeling. Now it's their chance to get it together and make a complete upgrade that we could all use, instead of adding bits of this and bits of that here and there.

[Neros]

Im not one of them, but so far, i have unly used house rules for the small stuff... Ive never made any greater changes to the rules.

But if anyone wants to make these changes, they should be welcome to trie. I did trie once, but it all ended up that the original system was better.

[Ricochet]

Now that you mention it, there's one thing I don't really like:
Ability Bonuses. They cost a staggering +5 if you want to buy them, while you can get an action to combine with another action for +3. Something about this strikes me as unbalanced.

I think point 4 and 6 are good. The rest, not so.

[pgholland]

powerfull said:

1) The seperate energy - health rule. Durability costs 1x and is your health. Energy (new statistic) costs 2x and is your energy pool and regeneration. No intellect based intelligence under this system, just buy more energy. Or (if you REALY want to go there) seperate mental and physical energy. mental energy would be int. based and could only be used for mental actions, and physical energy would be durability based, and usable for physical actions.

2) No stacking bonuses, no stacking powers. No seperate defences, such as toughness + reflexive dodge. only a general defence rating, with several parts. It has been sugested in another post before, and it's a very good rule to use here (although a very bad one to use in the marvel universe as it is IMO). Also, no stacking powers-statistics. If you want your character to be able to grow for example, you should purchase your full str and durability with stones. The growth power could be used as a limitation for either instead of an action (-1 to str and durability costs, must get bigger to use at full rank or something).

3) Melee weapons treated as modifiers. Str + weapon modifier for dammage.

4) No 9 action limit, no combined action boxes. No invention/technology (iron man), no ranged/closed combat (war machine), no ninja actions. You want it, you have to buy (and pay for) it seperately.

5) Captain america's shield is so unbalanced that it actually needs an entry all of it's own. The shield should be at +1 or +2 tops strength modifier. Come on, the guy could never dream of doing dammage to the hulk in the comics. Why is he able to throw the shield at the hulk for 3 white health of dammage here? Also, seperate defence and attack value for weapons (I would pick up an axe to chop at someone rather than C.A's shield any day).

6) No knockout option for weapons and attacks that would be considered <<killing combat>>. Perhaps a <<cripled>> or a <<coma>> option.

7) Changing the LOE rule so that it costs more to upgrade more expensive actions. (I've seen a post about it, but I haven't read it).

1) so what you're saying is, use the other energy rules or use the standard ones? or are you saying that you have to buy two energy statistics for mental AND physical actions? That would just make things more complicated, and Durability represents stamina as well as damage taking ability, so generating energy from it still makes sense.

2) You have to buy your full stats, that's crazazee! Things like growth cost enough as is, plus growing in size realistically inmcreases your strength, if not growth is just a get big action, thats a lot of stones for that. A general defence- well that's what you get, you add together all the relevant ones (which is what i can only assume you are meaning with the with several parts bit) and come out with one overall defence.

3) That may lead to game-breakingness but i can also see it's realism potential.

4) Well to combine actions you first have to buy them both, so all you are getting is a LOE cost break later on, you are losing out on the potential of those actions and can only do one or the other-remember you can only spend stones up to the action number, so if you have CC/RC at 5 you can't spend 10 stones and do both at 5. Plus 9 action limit makes things easier, i may not like it sometimes, but if you had to remember the 30 actions you had... people can only know so much- realism!

5) Cap might be able to do it once, but then he's stuffed as the Hulk hits and KOs him, so not that unbalanced. Also you may attack a person, however they will parry with whatever they can, so if they've bought a defence bonus they should get it, if you want realism all close combat weapons should give a defence bonus.

6) Well you can't, i believe it's anything that would do more than double your health in WHITE stones (not red, but white so around triple your white) automatically kills you, no chance of KO for a long time.

7) No way! That just slows down the game, you end up trying in vain to improve your actions while your friends who bought cheaper actions but do diddly in the Issues actually get theirs up loads, then you feel liek you're not getting anything and so you become disillusioned so don't want to play= not good.

[powerfull]

Lol. As I said before, these are all reasons for the marvel universe rpg is as it is Pholand. However there are many people that think that it's worth trading some flexibility in order to have balance and realism (and could even be a better system in some type of campaigns), so why not try to help them?

1) Yes, it would make things more complicated, the second being more complicated than the first, but also more appropriate in most situations. I'm hard pressed beleiving that great stamina would make you a beter thief or a better leader for example. Also there are people that have more energy then toughness. Marathon runners for example. Durability 1 or two max (have to be light weight), but lots of energy. I know that it makes sense to have a the same energy as health in many occasions, but you can buy them at the same rank if you feel this is your case. .

2) Well, growth doesn't cost enough, a level +2 action that gives you BOTH durability AND str? Don't think so. Stack it up with density increase, and you could very well have a str of 15 and a durability of 10 for peanuts. Plus, actually growth doesn't realisticlly increases your strength, since atomic growth would just make you larger not heavier or stronger, and normal growth would be intollerable for your body to handle, but this is of no concearn since it's a super power. Of course the cost would for growth would be downgraded in this case, as it would only make you larger in effect giving you more reach, and giving you a str and durability purchasing bonus if you deceide to be able to use your full str only at full size. As for defence, that's not what you get. What I'm telling is what I saw in another post. If you want your character to be both tough AND have fast reflexes, you add the cost TOGETHER! So tough 4 + reflexes 4 would cost as much as tough 8.

3) It's certainly more realistic. Needs tuning though. That's where your suggestions come.

4)Well, I don't think most people would want 30 actions for their character, most of them would be ok with up to 15, so not so much of a problem. I am aware of what you're saying but like we said, we want to make it more realistic a balanced. One person updating their ninja action with 10 lines and being able to do EVERYTHING better just ain't the same as one who needs to increase CC,RC,BO,Thief to be at the same calliber (but perhaps it could be if you use the adjustable LOE option).

5) Yes, but cap shouldn't be able to do it AT ALL in a realistic environment. Certainly weapons should make a person more effective in combat and no less (as in the case of cap holding a knife). However the limiting factor should be the relative strength of the person vs the material of the weapon. It's ok for thor to wield the indestructible mjolnir at someone using his full str, but he would be hard pressed to get a bonus from using a steel sword against the silver surfer.

6) I bet we could think of something better than that!

7) Yes, but your actions are more powerful than the flimsy actions they chose to purchase! so you'll be doing just fine! Perhaps it wouldn't be 10 lines per cost, we could reduce it to 3 per cost, so energy blast of 3 without options would cost 9 lines to get to 4, while energy blast 5 (or 3 with x2 dammage) would require 15 lines to get to 6.

[pgholland]

1) complicating things just for the sense of realism isn't always great, just think a lot of our player's are dyslexic or have otehr difficulties in those sorts of areas- my gaming group includes my dyslexic cousin and a mate who's not exactly great with the rules but enjoys playing- adding a layer of complexity will make it less fun for them, and they don't mind a little loss of realism, plus running a game like that would be tough, and i'd have to go out an buy anotehr set of coloured stones! lol Also, being a good thief isn't necessarily about mental prowess, its more about manual dex, but consider high stamina means that you're more likely to keep going at it, your perfoprmence is less likely to suffer from fatigue and so on, so in a sense Dur generating energy is a realistic extrapolation.

2) I agree it may be a little underpriced, but also can't be improved by lines ever so that's a drawback. However increased str and dur makes sense- if you get hit by a bullet when you are 60 feet tall then thats a lot less damaging (because it only hits a small bit of your tissue) than when you are 6 feet tall. As for the defences, once again i can see that, however the way it's done allows you to have minor defences against things (and remember in a 40 stone game you couldn't realistically have both at high levels, or even at all, especially if you couldn't justify it) that the otehr doesn't protect against, in your example- a defence of 4 against touch attacks- for RD, and 4 against a big area explosion- for toughness, or an 8 against many attacks, but you are forced to pay for a level 11 when both don't apply- for that price you could just buy a physical immunity.

4) The problem i can see is that it relates to LOE- you are going to have really stunted growth- plus Ninja (like any other action) i'd assume that in downtime you are practising it (all aspects of it) so for the sake of playability, couldn't you just let this one slide, it still has realism in it, but more for the sake of keeping the game simple enough- its a comic who cares about realism- Captain America anyone? Frozen in ice? Mutants... I'm just saying maybe it's taking it too far.

5) Once again simplicity, however think of it this way- 3 damage to the Hulk in 30 seconds- he's not going to notice that as he 'Pound puny man into ground!!!!!' but i can see your point- however once again Silver Surfer's toughness realistically negates the weapon's bonus, and perhaps that bonus just represents his due caution to it- it may be able to harm him, he doesn't know.

7) I'm a pretty smart guy and i'm still saying 'huh?' i don't understand how that system is working??? But think about this you decide you want to be like Cyclops, so you buy a nice powerful Force Blast, your friend buys lots of cheap actions to represent his characters combat capabilities, his black ops training etc. in the first two issues you end up having to do lots of force blasting- to defend your friend who can't defend himself, however he may end up getting his CC, Black Ops etc. up before you just because it's cheaper to raise than your force blast, is that fair?


Also Edit; bawonsamdi- there is one, though it's a bit old now.

[bawonsamdi]

I don't think that a rework of MURPG has any chance to come.
We, GMs, can do a lot of custom rules to adapt the system to our favorit gameplay. That doesn't mean that we all want a new system !
It would more usefull, IMO, to build a sort of compendium of house rules (the ones we like and the ones we don't) that we can find on this board. Each GM will be able to pick rules who suit his needs.
Maybe a wiki ?

[bawonsamdi]

pgholland said:

7) I'm a pretty smart guy and i'm still saying 'huh?' i don't understand how that system is working??? But think about this you decide you want to be like Cyclops, so you buy a nice powerful Force Blast, your friend buys lots of cheap actions to represent his characters combat capabilities, his black ops training etc. in the first two issues you end up having to do lots of force blasting- to defend your friend who can't defend himself, however he may end up getting his CC, Black Ops etc. up before you just because it's cheaper to raise than your force blast, is that fair?

Well, almost all (and by saying almost all i mean 99%) rpg systems work like that high level skills/powers are more expenseive to increase than cheap ones. And it sounds good to me.
MURPG is more like an exception rather than the general rule.

Also Edit; bawonsamdi- there is one, though it's a bit old now.

I know. But i think that an update of such compendium could be usefull (more usefull than a "realistic MURPG system")

[pgholland]

Well of all the RPGs i've played/play (and that's 5 that i can think of) only one of them uses that system (World of Darkness) and the biggest one (D20, specifically D&D) although it does sort of use it, doesn't really.

[powerfull]

Guys for god's shake, you're out of topic! We don't discuss here whether the new set of rules suggested here would be better/more fun/complex/difficult for people with dislexia (obviously not the first priority of the D20 system either). Neither do I intend to completely rewrite the system. What I want here is a complete set of rules that make the system more balanced/realistic! I understand that some people would prefer loosing up realism a bit in order to get an easier to go game. THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR THEM! Stick to the point please and stop filling the thread with <<less realistic is better>> arguments! Just suggest rules that would help make the system more balanced/realistic and your opinion about them!

I'm sorry I didn't answer some arguments made but I have to go to work, I just HAD to write this one now before 20 more irrelevant posts come up. I'll get back with you guys later.

[beryl]

pgholland said:

6) Well you can't, i believe it's anything that would do more than double your health in WHITE stones (not red, but white so around triple your white) automatically kills you, no chance of KO for a long time.

Can you cite your source on that, please?

Guys for god's shake, you're out of topic! We don't discuss here whether the new set of rules suggested here would be better/more fun/complex/difficult for people with dislexia (obviously not the first priority of the D20 system either). Neither do I intend to completely rewrite the system. What I want here is a complete set of rules that make the system more balanced/realistic! I understand that some people would prefer loosing up realism a bit in order to get an easier to go game. THIS THREAD IS NOT FOR THEM! Stick to the point please and stop filling the thread with <<less realistic is better>> arguments! Just suggest rules that would help make the system more balanced/realistic and your opinion about them!

Whoa, there. Calm down. Nobody's attacking you.

If you want this plan of yours to work properly, you have to fix what doesn't work. Some of this discussion is telling you what (in some opinions) doesn't work, so that you can fix it.

If you'd rather people just nod their heads and agree with everything you're saying, you're going to end up with a really quiet thread.

That said, this thread apparently isn't for me, so... :P

[pgholland]

I'm sure i remember reading it in the GM's section of the main guide, but i may be wrong, i know it says something about it somewhere but i cant remember where, or else no character would ever be able to die in combat they'd just choose to be knocked out.

But yeah Powerfull we're just giving you our opinions, that is why you put the topic on here isn't it? And i agreeded with you on points- yes maybe there are better house rules ways to do it HOWEVER a total system rewrite just to make things, in your opinion, more realistic is silly, why fix what really isn't broken?

[powerfull]

Ok, let's write a long one.

I don't think that you're attacking me. You don't even disagree with me! If we all sit together in a nice table and you ask me if the system is better the way it is, I would say <<hell, yea!>>. Ok? This thread has nothing to do with ME. And I don't consider it an attack when you say you prefer the system the way it is, because I AGREE with you. It is a freestyle rpg, trying to have a loose comic feeling.

However some don't like that loose comic feeling, and would feel more comfortable in a more realistic and balanced system. I don't agree with them. I like the system mostly the way it is. However I believe we can make the effort anyway, giving them a set of house rules that would make the system more balanced and realistic, and let everyone decide wheather it suits them better or not.

This thread is not to discuss whether or not this would make for a better game. This has been discussed to the death as far as I know in the General discussion. If you want to have such a discussion with me and them, I'd be more than happy to open a new thread in Marvel General Discusion about it. If you HAVE to know my opinion, I say that it MIGHT be better for some particular campaigns (mostly low powered gritty campaigns for all-too-mortal heroes come in mind). But this thread is not about your (or my) opinions, it's about your (and my) ideas. It's as I say in my first post, <<for those of you who want to go there>>! It's about suggestions to make the game more realistic, not about opinions of whether or not it's worth the effort to do so.

What I'm doing here is trying to sort out some ideas I've read about and add a few of my own (and your own, if you have suggestions to make), and have them all in a single thread as a whole unified suggestion for a realistic and balanced game.

So, let's get back to your posts :

Ricochet: Yea, I think the extra ability bonuses and the combined actions suck balance wise, and should probably be ditched out as well, but I haven't thought of a way to get rid of them until now. Do you have another suggestion about the rest of the rules that would be more balanced and realistic? I would very much like to hear it.

bawonsamdi : Who said anything about rewriting the book?? I have no intention of rewriting it, all I want to do is to write a sum of rules that added together work to make a balanced and realistic system! But there have to be more then one of them, because marvel has a lot of issues balance and reality wise, and they have to be able to work in a complete set because usually when you change a set of rules, you drag a few others along.

Pholand : 1) Yes, complicating things for the sake of realism is not always great. This thread however is for those people who think it would be. So let's try and give them something instead of our opinions (let me state again that I AGREE with you, but that's not the point).
2) Yes, but that isn't balanced. The no lines is a non-issue since you can't alter your statistics with lines either if they're above 2. As for defence: Who said we're gonna leave physical defence cost at 20? And physical defence doesn't protect against energy or magical attacks, while R.D. and TGH usually do. I've been thinking a formula about it but it's not yet complete to post here.
3) You said earlier that you saw the potential for realism in treating weapons as modifiers. Care to add a suggestion or two about how it could work?
4) Again you state the sake of playability. As I said before, some people prefer to lose some degree of playability in order to get a more balanced and realistic system. This thread is for them. Our personal opinions whether this is a good or a bad point of view don't matter. And it's not stunted growth. It's a balancing measure so that players with very expensive powers won't dominate the game later on.
5) The same arguement as above.
7) Not very well writen, yea. I edited my first post with a new one. It certainly makes up for a more balanced game because in the long run you would both be as effective, and you get no advantage for picking up a very expensive action in low ranks, thinking that a few sessions later you could outpower everybody else with it. Combined with the non stack actions and a few other rules, would make a 40 stone character about as strong as any other 40 stone character (even in the long run). And in real life it's usually much more difficult to become better with a skill you have mastered, than it is for you to learn the basics of something new. So yes, it would be more fair and realistic for your friend to get better in black ops (since he didn't have much skill in it to begin with) than you with your mastered optic blast.

Neros : A dozen rules or so won't make for a new system. I just want to incorporate them all at the same time.

Beryl : As I said before, I want your ideas mostly in this thread. Your opinions should only be posted if they address the lack of balance/realism/playability (in that order) of a rule posted here. Do you have an idea that would make the game more balanced or realistic? I want to hear about it. I want this thread to be full of sugestions, easy to read for someone who wants to make some of his own. I would be more than happy to exchange opinions about it in the marven general discussion, as I said before. And really, can you site your source about the death rule? Is it from the <<knocked out vs vaporised>> paragraph?