Post by powerfull on Sept 3, 2006 19:36:16 GMT -5
I see a lot of posts here from people trying to impose rules for the marvel system that would make it more balanced or more realistic, or both. I find out most of these rules to be out of concept as far as the marvel universe system goes, and not working very well on their own. But if we add them together, we could create an offshot of marvel, more realistic and balance oriented, for those of you that want to go there. I want from you to post here all the rules that you saw in this forum or that you've thought about yourselves and think that would be worth implementing to such a rules set in order to give a more realistic and balanced feeling to the game. Please don't post messages considering whether or not a marvel game should be realistic and balanced. It has already been stated <<for those that want to go there>>, or for those who would like to help those that want to go there even if they don't plan on sailing them selves. I want to keep this a rules discussion thread. As far as I know the matter has been addressed to death in the General discussion forum.
I will post a *** before every rule that is complete and IMO ready to be incorporated. These rules are of course as open to discussion as tje rest, but I think they make up pretty decent rulings (from a realistic/balanced perspective) and are mostly in need of cost addressing. All the rest are mere suggestions, and in need of serious tuning
1) Seperate energy from durability, or even (for those that REALY want to go there) seperate mental and physical action stones!
2) No stacking bonuses, no stacking powers. No seperate defences, such as toughness + reflexive dodge. only a general defence rating, with several parts. It has been sugested in another post before, and it's a very good rule to use here (although a very bad one to use in the marvel universe as it is IMO). Also, no stacking powers-statistics. If you want your character to be able to grow for example, you should purchase your full str and durability with stones. The growth power could be used as a limitation for either instead of an action (-1 to str and durability costs, must get bigger to use at full rank or something).
3) Melee weapons treated as modifiers. Str + weapon modifier for dammage.
4) No 9 action limit, no combined action boxes. No invention/technology (iron man), no ranged/closed combat (war machine), no ninja actions. You want it, you have to buy (and pay for) it seperately.
5) Captain america's shield is so unbalanced that it actually needs an entry all of it's own. The shield should be at +1 or +2 tops strength modifier. Come on, the guy could never dream of doing dammage to the hulk in the comics. Why is he able to throw the shield at the hulk for 3 white health of dammage here? Also, seperate defence and attack value for weapons (I would pick up an axe to chop at someone rather than C.A's shield any day).
6) No knockout option for weapons and attacks that would be considered <<killing combat>>. A <<cripled>> choise, that stuns you for the same duration as KO (screaming in agony) and also causes a dissability (loss of body part, paralysis, etc) if you don't have a healing factor or something. You will obviously use this if you don't want to die from dammage (Oh my god he cut my arm off!!!)
*** 7) Changing the LOE rule so that it costs more to upgrade more expensive actions. New rule, based on the one presented on Avengers guide, page 45 : To upgrade an action you pay the cost difference between the previous AN and the new one, just like with stones received in the game from challenges. 2 LOE are worth one red stone. Example : Energy blast AN3 cost = 1 white, and AN4 cost = 2 white. So if you want to increase your energy blast AN from 3 to 4, you have to pay one white stone (the difference between the cost of AN3 with AN4) , or 3 red stones, or 6 LOE.
8) New 2x rules. All weapons that are generaly <<killing>> weapons. Not just firearms, but also swords, lasers, axes, bows, grenades, claws, fangs,etc.) do 2x dammage. The KO rule cannot be used when dealt dammage by a <<killing>> attack, so a person is very likely to die if dealt heavy dammage with such a weapon. 3x dammage is reserved for unusually deadly effects (disintergrating attacks,etc). Under the new rules, no 2x toughness is reserved for creatures with either invulnerable anatomies (energy beings, blobs of slime, zombies), or advanced healing factors, indicating the ability to repair (or the total luck of) major organs such as the lungs, the liver, the heart, etc. So, yes hulk is no2x, but the thing or colossus had better tough it out, because if it penetrates, it's gonna hurt like hell. Under the new rule, no2x is available as an option for the various healing factors, and transformation powers.
please add to the list, so we can proceed in working out something. The gloves are off! Do your best! No holding back, no compromise! Put all the realism and balance you ever dreamed of! It's 4am and I must be going to bed.
6/9 , new complete suggestion for 1st paragraph : New revamped rule for energy and health for MTR. Some modifications have to be made. Under the new MTR rule, there is no such thing as intellect based energy. The new rule makes it obsolite. Healing factor also no longer affects recovery of red stones and is -2 value at all levels.
New abilities : ENERGY, and RECOVERY
New concepts: Power reserve, power recovery.
Durability no longer costs 3x. Durability no longer has anything to do with energy or recovery. It's otherwise remains the same.
ENERGY: Costs as a normal ability. ENERGY represents only the maximun number of stones you can hold in each pannel, and does not affect your recovery. For each stone of ENERGY(ability) that you purchase or gain, you allocate either 3 stones of energy to your energy reserve, or 4 stones to your power reserve (explained later).
RECOVERY : Costs as a normal ability. For each stone of RECOVERY (ability) that you purchase or gain, you alocate it either as an energy recovery stone, or a power recovery stone. can choose to either recover a point of energy to your energy reserve each panel, or recover 4 points in 3 pannels (one at pannels 1-2 and two at pannel 3) in your power reserve.
The Power reserve : The power reserve has red stones that can only be used for powers. It can represent many things, such as mental or mystical strength not directly related to one's body, access to cosmic or extraplanar reserves, etc.
ENERGY can be purchased at 0, for 0 stones. You recover stones as usual, but these only last until the end of the round. Useful to describe constracts or automatons that don't tire, but don't build up either. A robot could have energy 0 and recovery 3, meaning that it gets 3 red stones per round. It could perform 3 stone feats all day, but never more than that.
Cad example:
Proffesor Gavier (a very distant cousin of professor Xavier )has a durability of 2 (2 red stones to buy), ENERGY of 5 (3 white stones to buy), with 3 stones allocated to power reserve and 2 stones allocated to his energy reserve, and RECOVERY 4 (2 white stones to buy) with 2 stones allocated to power reserve and 2 to energy reserve). His cad would look something like this :
Durability : 2
ENERGY : 2/3p
RECOVERY : 2/2p
Health : 2
Reserve: 6/12p (meaning 6 energy and 12 power reserve)
Professor Gavier recovers 2 points to his energy reserve per pannel, and 8 points in 3 pannels (2 points at pannel 1 and 3 points at pannel 2 and 3) in his power reserve.
He can use his energy reserve to do whatever he wants. But he can use the Power reserve only to power his telepathy (on any other special power that he has purchased).
7/9 How is damage treated under the new rules : As you get more damaged, your ability to recovery energy suffers. For each health level that you lose, you also subtract one stone from your RECOVERY. This loss affects your energy recovery first, then your power recovey. If both of your recovery ratings have been reduced to zero and you're still not unconcious (If you had a durability of 7 and a recovery of 2 for example) then each additional hit you take, drains 3 points from your reserve (again going from energy first and power later). This helps simulate a lot of different individuals and their reaction to damage. A high durability/low recovery individual, would still have health points and would not be seriously injured, yet his low resolve would make him unable to get his bearing and perform any actions. A low durability/high energy individual would push on even when seriously wounded and would help portrait an individual of great resolve and determination. It would also help simulate individuals that access energies outside their bodies and still have command over them even when seriously injured.
For example, let's assume that professor Gavier from the previous example, takes 1 white stone of dammage from Graveto (a very,VERY distant cousin of Magneto). His recovery (originaly 2/2p) would drop to 1/2p from the damage he received. Although seriously injured, professor Gavier is still a force to be reconned with. Let's think of another example. Paino (a distant cousin of Raino) has a durability of 6, but recovery of 4. If he suffers 4 points of dammage, he's not in very bad shape and still has 2 health left. His recover is now 0 though, and he can't get any energy back until he regains one recovery point. If he suffers another white stone of dammage, he will be drained of 3 energy points (if he still has energy points left). Being a wimp, Paino will probably beg the heroes to stop hurting him any more, if he loses 4 white health points.
Healing factor would give you one point of health and one point of RECOVERY back as indicated. (only if your RECOVERY is damaged) You don't get anything else however (so it would be reasonable to price healing factors at -2 if you use this system). If you want a character that recovers back faster, just buy RECOVERY at a higher rank.
I will post a *** before every rule that is complete and IMO ready to be incorporated. These rules are of course as open to discussion as tje rest, but I think they make up pretty decent rulings (from a realistic/balanced perspective) and are mostly in need of cost addressing. All the rest are mere suggestions, and in need of serious tuning
1) Seperate energy from durability, or even (for those that REALY want to go there) seperate mental and physical action stones!
2) No stacking bonuses, no stacking powers. No seperate defences, such as toughness + reflexive dodge. only a general defence rating, with several parts. It has been sugested in another post before, and it's a very good rule to use here (although a very bad one to use in the marvel universe as it is IMO). Also, no stacking powers-statistics. If you want your character to be able to grow for example, you should purchase your full str and durability with stones. The growth power could be used as a limitation for either instead of an action (-1 to str and durability costs, must get bigger to use at full rank or something).
3) Melee weapons treated as modifiers. Str + weapon modifier for dammage.
4) No 9 action limit, no combined action boxes. No invention/technology (iron man), no ranged/closed combat (war machine), no ninja actions. You want it, you have to buy (and pay for) it seperately.
5) Captain america's shield is so unbalanced that it actually needs an entry all of it's own. The shield should be at +1 or +2 tops strength modifier. Come on, the guy could never dream of doing dammage to the hulk in the comics. Why is he able to throw the shield at the hulk for 3 white health of dammage here? Also, seperate defence and attack value for weapons (I would pick up an axe to chop at someone rather than C.A's shield any day).
6) No knockout option for weapons and attacks that would be considered <<killing combat>>. A <<cripled>> choise, that stuns you for the same duration as KO (screaming in agony) and also causes a dissability (loss of body part, paralysis, etc) if you don't have a healing factor or something. You will obviously use this if you don't want to die from dammage (Oh my god he cut my arm off!!!)
*** 7) Changing the LOE rule so that it costs more to upgrade more expensive actions. New rule, based on the one presented on Avengers guide, page 45 : To upgrade an action you pay the cost difference between the previous AN and the new one, just like with stones received in the game from challenges. 2 LOE are worth one red stone. Example : Energy blast AN3 cost = 1 white, and AN4 cost = 2 white. So if you want to increase your energy blast AN from 3 to 4, you have to pay one white stone (the difference between the cost of AN3 with AN4) , or 3 red stones, or 6 LOE.
8) New 2x rules. All weapons that are generaly <<killing>> weapons. Not just firearms, but also swords, lasers, axes, bows, grenades, claws, fangs,etc.) do 2x dammage. The KO rule cannot be used when dealt dammage by a <<killing>> attack, so a person is very likely to die if dealt heavy dammage with such a weapon. 3x dammage is reserved for unusually deadly effects (disintergrating attacks,etc). Under the new rules, no 2x toughness is reserved for creatures with either invulnerable anatomies (energy beings, blobs of slime, zombies), or advanced healing factors, indicating the ability to repair (or the total luck of) major organs such as the lungs, the liver, the heart, etc. So, yes hulk is no2x, but the thing or colossus had better tough it out, because if it penetrates, it's gonna hurt like hell. Under the new rule, no2x is available as an option for the various healing factors, and transformation powers.
please add to the list, so we can proceed in working out something. The gloves are off! Do your best! No holding back, no compromise! Put all the realism and balance you ever dreamed of! It's 4am and I must be going to bed.
6/9 , new complete suggestion for 1st paragraph : New revamped rule for energy and health for MTR. Some modifications have to be made. Under the new MTR rule, there is no such thing as intellect based energy. The new rule makes it obsolite. Healing factor also no longer affects recovery of red stones and is -2 value at all levels.
New abilities : ENERGY, and RECOVERY
New concepts: Power reserve, power recovery.
Durability no longer costs 3x. Durability no longer has anything to do with energy or recovery. It's otherwise remains the same.
ENERGY: Costs as a normal ability. ENERGY represents only the maximun number of stones you can hold in each pannel, and does not affect your recovery. For each stone of ENERGY(ability) that you purchase or gain, you allocate either 3 stones of energy to your energy reserve, or 4 stones to your power reserve (explained later).
RECOVERY : Costs as a normal ability. For each stone of RECOVERY (ability) that you purchase or gain, you alocate it either as an energy recovery stone, or a power recovery stone. can choose to either recover a point of energy to your energy reserve each panel, or recover 4 points in 3 pannels (one at pannels 1-2 and two at pannel 3) in your power reserve.
The Power reserve : The power reserve has red stones that can only be used for powers. It can represent many things, such as mental or mystical strength not directly related to one's body, access to cosmic or extraplanar reserves, etc.
ENERGY can be purchased at 0, for 0 stones. You recover stones as usual, but these only last until the end of the round. Useful to describe constracts or automatons that don't tire, but don't build up either. A robot could have energy 0 and recovery 3, meaning that it gets 3 red stones per round. It could perform 3 stone feats all day, but never more than that.
Cad example:
Proffesor Gavier (a very distant cousin of professor Xavier )has a durability of 2 (2 red stones to buy), ENERGY of 5 (3 white stones to buy), with 3 stones allocated to power reserve and 2 stones allocated to his energy reserve, and RECOVERY 4 (2 white stones to buy) with 2 stones allocated to power reserve and 2 to energy reserve). His cad would look something like this :
Durability : 2
ENERGY : 2/3p
RECOVERY : 2/2p
Health : 2
Reserve: 6/12p (meaning 6 energy and 12 power reserve)
Professor Gavier recovers 2 points to his energy reserve per pannel, and 8 points in 3 pannels (2 points at pannel 1 and 3 points at pannel 2 and 3) in his power reserve.
He can use his energy reserve to do whatever he wants. But he can use the Power reserve only to power his telepathy (on any other special power that he has purchased).
7/9 How is damage treated under the new rules : As you get more damaged, your ability to recovery energy suffers. For each health level that you lose, you also subtract one stone from your RECOVERY. This loss affects your energy recovery first, then your power recovey. If both of your recovery ratings have been reduced to zero and you're still not unconcious (If you had a durability of 7 and a recovery of 2 for example) then each additional hit you take, drains 3 points from your reserve (again going from energy first and power later). This helps simulate a lot of different individuals and their reaction to damage. A high durability/low recovery individual, would still have health points and would not be seriously injured, yet his low resolve would make him unable to get his bearing and perform any actions. A low durability/high energy individual would push on even when seriously wounded and would help portrait an individual of great resolve and determination. It would also help simulate individuals that access energies outside their bodies and still have command over them even when seriously injured.
For example, let's assume that professor Gavier from the previous example, takes 1 white stone of dammage from Graveto (a very,VERY distant cousin of Magneto). His recovery (originaly 2/2p) would drop to 1/2p from the damage he received. Although seriously injured, professor Gavier is still a force to be reconned with. Let's think of another example. Paino (a distant cousin of Raino) has a durability of 6, but recovery of 4. If he suffers 4 points of dammage, he's not in very bad shape and still has 2 health left. His recover is now 0 though, and he can't get any energy back until he regains one recovery point. If he suffers another white stone of dammage, he will be drained of 3 energy points (if he still has energy points left). Being a wimp, Paino will probably beg the heroes to stop hurting him any more, if he loses 4 white health points.
Healing factor would give you one point of health and one point of RECOVERY back as indicated. (only if your RECOVERY is damaged) You don't get anything else however (so it would be reasonable to price healing factors at -2 if you use this system). If you want a character that recovers back faster, just buy RECOVERY at a higher rank.