Pricing Healing Factors with Growth

[Scriptus]

So here's my question. Let's say you have a player who wants to have a character who grows and has a healing factor. It seems wrong to me to let the guy pay just the normal cost for his healing factor because in a matter of seconds he can increase his durability.

It also seems wrong to me to charge his full grown durability for the price of the healing factor.

So what I am looking for is where would you guys put the middle ground? What do you think?

[dorkknight23]

I would argue that you pay for the price of a healing factor up to a certain Durability. That Healing Factor will affect your energy regeneration rate up to that Durability or lower, and not affect higher Durabilities you can reach.

For example, let's say you have a Durability of 3, Growth 4, and you want to buy a healing factor. You could lift your durability to 7, but you purchase your healing factor for a Durability of 4 (for 4 white stones.) That means at a Durability of 3 and 4 you regenerate 3 red/2 white, but at 5 and above you regenerate the standard amount (but you would still heal faster.)

That's my approach, anyway.

[Kaimontfendo]

Although I have never encountered this problem before, I would say just price the healing factor based on their base durability, and if they grow, well... They need to spend stones to grow, and they need enough room. Most ceilings aren't 20 feet high, so most indoor locations would be a problem.

Basically, I think most people don't consider the drawbacks of Growth enough. If nothing else, a larger target is easier to hit, so he should take more damage. At least in theory.

[malice]

Yeah, and growth increases your strength, so with a strength bonus on close combat (I'm assuming the growing person is a Close fighter) You need the extra energy regeneration to fight as well. This is why I was never impressed with actions that increased abilities without allowing for greater energy recovery. However I don't think pricing it at base durability is going to cover all your bases. If the player manages to get an Instant Healing Factor for example, it could become a problem quickly. I would allow them the healing factor they paid for at the durability they're at.

So if the player as a durability of 3, Growth 7, and an instant healing factor:
Durability____Healing Factor
3_____________Instant
4_____________Instant or Enhanced
5_____________Enhanced
6_____________Accelerated
7_____________Accelerated or Normal
8_____________Healing Factor
9_____________Healing Factor or 2x Healing Rate
10____________2x Healing Rate or Rapid Recovery or Nothing

This is how I would suggest doing it. The reason I included the two options for each of those is so you could decide whether you wanted to be lenient or stingy. You get the healing factor you paid for. I don't know what people think if 2x and Rapid Recovery so that's why I left that open

Btw if anyone is curious I would personally allow the better of the two options, so the player never completely loses their healing. However if their durability was less than 3 I don't think I'd allow any healing past 7 growths, perhaps Rapid Recovery, I'd have to see how powerful 7 growths could be (None of my PCs ever bought growth).

[Kaimontfendo]

Hmm... Malice presents an interesting idea. As the character grows larger, their healing factor becomes less powerful... I'm not sure I like it for characters with lower-powered healing factors, but it's definately worthy of consideration.

[malice]

I can see allowing Rapid Recovery no matter how big they get, but my primary concern was that once you get enough white stones of health, how fast you regenerate them becomes the difference between being a threat and being a god. I can't imagine ever letting someone with 7+durability have an instant healing factor that they paid for at 3 or 4 durability. 19-28 stones of damage is hard to inflict reliably all in one panel. I've made characters who can do it, but they were usually one or two-dimesnional murderers.

[thanos]

I guess I don't really see the problem other than trying to limit the upper limit of what your PC's are capable of. Even getting an Instant Healing Factor on a 3 durability costs 15 stones, which is a huge cost regardless of the power. Grown takes up an action slot, never improves, and is limited or completely useless depending on circumstances, is likely to cause collateral damage, and it takes a panel to prepare. That makes it something like a +7CL power there which to me means that it deserves to get every benefit available.

Having an Instant Healing Factor and having Grown means you can potentially, if your outside, get a very large durability and energy regen rate (and that your very hard to actually kill). The major drawback is that the Energy you regen for the next panel is based off of your ENDING Durability stones, not your starting Durability stones. So if the IHF/Growth guy is all grown up and gets hit dropping down to 2 White he only gets 4 stones of Energy the next panel, which isn't going to go very far if you just dumped 25+ stones into Strength+CC.

Reducing the Healing Factor doesn't do justice to the massive amount of stones a player payed for his character to have that really nice Healing Factor. Its like penalizing a PC with a Challenge they were never reimbursted for.

If you as the GM decide to tell the player that you do not want to have the Indestructable Instant Healing Growth Monster in your game and say that you 'will' allow the character if they take a Challenge something to the effect of what Malice posted and refund them 6-9 stones so that they can perhaps get some General Knowledge or Social skills that is certainly something to discuss.

[malice]

thanos said:

I guess I don't really see the problem other than trying to limit the upper limit of what your PC's are capable of. Even getting an Instant Healing Factor on a 3 durability costs 15 stones, which is a huge cost regardless of the power. Grown takes up an action slot, never improves, and is limited or completely useless depending on circumstances, is likely to cause collateral damage, and it takes a panel to prepare. That makes it something like a +7CL power there which to me means that it deserves to get every benefit available.

Having an Instant Healing Factor and having Grown means you can potentially, if your outside, get a very large durability and energy regen rate (and that your very hard to actually kill). The major drawback is that the Energy you regen for the next panel is based off of your ENDING Durability stones, not your starting Durability stones. So if the IHF/Growth guy is all grown up and gets hit dropping down to 2 White he only gets 4 stones of Energy the next panel, which isn't going to go very far if you just dumped 25+ stones into Strength+CC.

Reducing the Healing Factor doesn't do justice to the massive amount of stones a player payed for his character to have that really nice Healing Factor. Its like penalizing a PC with a Challenge they were never reimbursted for.

If you as the GM decide to tell the player that you do not want to have the Indestructable Instant Healing Growth Monster in your game and say that you 'will' allow the character if they take a Challenge something to the effect of what Malice posted and refund them 6-9 stones so that they can perhaps get some General Knowledge or Social skills that is certainly something to discuss.

Instant Healing Factor never suffers a penalty to energy regeneration because you recover all white stones. So therefore every panel that you're not dead you recover all of your white stones and twice your durability in red stones of energy. A person with 10 durability would recover all their white stones and 20 red stones of energy every single panel unless they were killed in one panel.

[Kaimontfendo]

I think Thanos was trying to say is that the energy recovery occurs before health recovery. In that case, I agree.

[Scriptus]

kaimontfendo said:

I think Thanos was trying to say is that the energy recovery occurs before health recovery. In that case, I agree.

In the comments under Instant Healing Factor in the book it says that it heals all wounds instantly (not at the end of the panel).

Now you may think I'm getting a little to loose with the interpretation of the wording there but later in the comments in goes on to say that, "A hero with this power can be killed, but it has to be all in one blow."

That seems to suggest that the character would heal completely in between blows given on the same panel.

I say all that to say this. At the end of their panel if they are not dead they have their full health and will regenerate 2x their health number in red stones.

[malice]

scriptus said:

kaimontfendo said:

I think Thanos was trying to say is that the energy recovery occurs before health recovery. In that case, I agree.

In the comments under Instant Healing Factor in the book it says that it heals all wounds instantly (not at the end of the panel).

Now you may think I'm getting a little to loose with the interpretation of the wording there but later in the comments in goes on to say that, "A hero with this power can be killed, but it has to be all in one blow."

That seems to suggest that the character would heal completely in between blows given on the same panel.

I say all that to say this. At the end of their panel if they are not dead they have their full health and will regenerate 2x their health number in red stones.

With that in mind I think we can all agree that Instant Healing Factor is ONE OF THE MOST BADASS MODIFIERS EVER! Not that I didn't already think that, but I love that healing factor so much I don't even feel silly being redundant. Anyway, I'd still never let someone buy an Instant Healing Factor for 15 stones and then enjoy its full benefits at Durability 10 or more.

[thanos]

It stays "Heal all White stones each Panel"

All damage during a panel is added up at the end and then applied to your white stones. Until the end of the panel you are not hurt. The next stage is the start of a new Page, which is when you get your energy back (not during a panel). Then individual panel's start, which means actions and reactions can take place. AHF (if its the second panel after taking damage), EHF, and IHF then get a chance to do something about the damage. In the case of IHF it heals ALL damage.

Wonderman gets hurt in the comics, it just goes away faster than anybody elses healing factor.

If everything heals the very instant that the damage is done, instead of the next instant that the body gets to react then IHF should cost more.

[malice]

thanos said:

It stays "Heal all White stones each Panel"

All damage during a panel is added up at the end and then applied to your white stones. Until the end of the panel you are not hurt. The next stage is the start of a new Page, which is when you get your energy back (not during a panel). Then individual panel's start, which means actions and reactions can take place. AHF (if its the second panel after taking damage), EHF, and IHF then get a chance to do something about the damage. In the case of IHF it heals ALL damage.

Wonderman gets hurt in the comics, it just goes away faster than anybody elses healing factor.

If everything heals the very instant that the damage is done, instead of the next instant that the body gets to react then IHF should cost more.

That doesn't make any sense. If you're not considered injured until the end of the panel then someone with Agility 1 could attack after being KOed by 3 people with agility 7. You're injured when you're injured, not at the end of the panel or the beginning of the next.

[kxjubilee]

Actually it makes a lot of sense to me. You see what they are accounting for is the fact that all actions happen in a very short time, usually about 3 seconds per phase as with other games. Now what happens is that it is likely that even if someone is knocked out that they would still be able to act, since the brain blacks out but the signal for the next action has already been sent to the rest of the body. When I was younger I had periods where I would black out for 20-30mins and still be moving around on an auto pilot mode, I have been told that I am a great tennis player when I am blacked out. Also Battle Tech uses the same rules where all damage is applied at the end of the phase since everything there happens in a short time too.

There is both a real reason why damage isn't applied right away and a cinematographic reason. You could say that the hero gets the final shoot with his final breath, but since every one has normally already allocated energy my definition stays with the black out situation.

[webhead]

With regard to when damage and KO are applied, I'm almost positive that it's as the attack in question happens, rather than at the end of the panel. I say "almost positive" because I don't have my books at the moment. There's a page in the combat examples where Cyclops and Jean run across Sabretooth and Mystique. In it, I'm almost positive it gives an example of Sabretooth acting before Cyclops in the panel, and Cyke gets KO'ed. The result? Cyke doesn't get his attack off that panel, because he's KO'ed.

If someone with access to their books could quote this text directly, I think it would dispel any confusion on the matter.