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Post by malice on Feb 25, 2007 16:22:32 GMT -5
You're right webhead, it's pg. 87 of the main game guide. So you're 100% correct and I agree. You're injured when you're injured. If a player wanted to complete their actions that panel then they could buy a special modifier, but your average character goes down when KOed.
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Post by thanos on Feb 25, 2007 16:29:11 GMT -5
Yes, and that seems to be in direct opposition to of the third paragraph under Damage on pg12. BUT, Step 4 in the playing Cycle gives actions are done in Agility order. This is one of those examples of things that reviewers didn't like about MURPG.
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Post by webhead on Feb 25, 2007 16:42:24 GMT -5
Yes, and that seems to be in direct opposition to of the third paragraph under Damage on pg12. BUT, Step 4 in the playing Cycle gives actions are done in Agility order. This is one of those examples of things that reviewers didn't like about MURPG. Man, I wish I had my books. It's been so long since I've actually had the things, I don't even remember the part you mention on pg.12, thanos, though I'd like to look into it. I agree that there's a good bit of clunkiness to the rules. I guess we can't be too upset, since there was never a revision (with the exception of the rules clarifications in the X-Men and Avengers guides). I mean, the system's pretty decent for not having been revised. I guess there might not be a hard rule that definitively states when damage is resolved after all. I still think most GMs would resolve it as it happens, though, as per the combat example on pg.87 that malice was so kind to locate for me.
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Post by malice on Feb 25, 2007 16:46:24 GMT -5
The wording is "at the end of combat". If you're KOed or killed then combat is over whether you've acted or not. It just makes sense that way, it's only very unique instances or individuals that would continue to act after being knocked out or killed.
And aside from this very common set of abilities: INT 3 STR 3 AGI 7 SPD 3 DUR 3 or 4
I don't really see the problem with Agility order. However I'll grant that the above set of ability scores isn't really a small problem.
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Post by Grimsolace on Feb 25, 2007 21:54:35 GMT -5
I'll also note that a panels course takes a significant amount of time. Instead of the normal 3-6 second incremental rounds like most other gaming systems, MURPG uses a sizable 30 second interval. Where a character may be able to keep his feet after a 5 second whipping to get in one last, sad punch, before he falls, odds are he'll not withstand 30 seconds of getting his butt kicked.
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Post by webhead on Feb 26, 2007 0:03:56 GMT -5
You know, what we're not taking into consideration here is that the game's not really meant to be played the way we do it here on this forum. I'm pretty sure the designers intended each player (including GM controlled NPCs) to determine their actions for the panel, then simultaneously have all actions revealed and determine outcomes.
That would account for damage being resolved at the end of a panel, since it's not as if each character's "turn" matters with everything being resolved at once. Like malice said, if a character with a lower Agility is KOed, then his action obviously wouldn't occur that panel. So, I guess it is a little more clear now that I think about it.
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Post by herugrim on May 18, 2007 10:45:51 GMT -5
Heh, I was worried about the whole Growth+Instant HF combo, until I tried it in practical use. Yes, it takes a lot of stones to take down said character, unless more then one person is attacking. No matter how big a character is, they still have to get in close for melee combat (point-blank range for ranged fighters) and they do make a very big target (another bonus). Factor in that the enemies they fight are most likely smaller then them, and also harder to hit (a penalty), things start to look more balanced. And again, there's the whole roof thing. It's a little cheap, but a creative GM can get around it easily
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Post by thanos on May 18, 2007 16:04:17 GMT -5
One of the reasons why the character I made also gained Toughness per 20' to mitagate some of those disadvantages....think how bad it would be with a lower Toughness :-P
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Post by Pope Mega Force on May 19, 2007 12:30:11 GMT -5
I still can't get around the fact that it's extraordinarily unfair to allow a person to transfer that same healing factor up with their growth. Just doesn't make any sense. I suppose it is in fact up to the GM though.
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Post by pgholland on May 19, 2007 18:18:27 GMT -5
It's just a power combination, and a VERY expensive one at that- remember whatever you buy growth at, that's it, no increasing through play, meaning that you have to buy the growth you want and the healing factor you want out of your starting stones- and a healing factor is not cheap- Instant Healing Factor and Dur 3 cost you 18 white stones- nearly half your stones as a 40 stone character, factor in that you then have to buy Growth that's a minimum of 1 white stone and has it's own inherent weakness (see above- Huge size etc.), and that you then need to buy all your other abilites and actions (as well as modifiers) with at most 21 stones- which in the end don't go far at all-you either choose to have a very very powerful and hardy character, who most likely can be mind controlled very easily or simply KOed before he can grow, who can't really fight with any finesse or do anything else; or you have a character who maybe has 5 durability when grown and can actually do things.
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Post by Pope Mega Force on May 19, 2007 19:47:40 GMT -5
That doesn't change the fact that it gives the player an unfair advantage. I liked what malice posted when he gave a table for the healing factors. That person can put 2 stones into growth and still have enhanced healing factor. That's still really good. I think that table is probably the best idea. It just makes sense. Keeping your instant healing factor with that high of growth, doesn't.
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Post by swsquall on May 19, 2007 21:16:00 GMT -5
It's just a power combination, and a VERY expensive one at that Yes, you're right. It's powerful, and expensive. But I think the point that is being made is that being able to just grow (regardless of size and cons of growing), and still keep the instant healing factor regardless of how high you pump your Dur. I have to agree with Malice and pope, it is pretty unfair. Just for your info. Instant Healing Factor w/ Dur 3: CL 10 (15ws) Instant Healing Factor w/ Dur 10: CL 17 (50ws) Growth 7 + Instant Healing Factor w/ Dur 3: CL 9 (Growth) + CL 10 (Instant Healing Factor) (27ws) Again, yes, the character is growing a good bit. The character is also getting an Instant Healing Factor. Which means in order to incapacitate the character so that he will not heal next round, it will require a 30rs total damage to destroy him. And if the Factor instantly healed damage, as suggested earlier, this would mean that the damage would have to be all dealt in a single attack. And this is taking into assumption that the character has allocated nothing to Defense, has no toughness or other form of defense. So you figure, lets say, with a 40 stone char, + 10 in challanges. So you spend 27ws to get the combination. Dur 3 costs 3ws, and we'll just give him average stats all-around (2 3's, 2 4's) which equals 6ws. Just for giggles, we give him......6 mental defense, 4ws. We also give him Toughness +3, another 4ws. Close Combat 4, 2ws. Ranged Combat 3, 1ws. Gen Knowledge 3, 2ws. Magic Defense 3, 1ws. So, basically we have here a 50 stone char, who, when grown, is nigh-invincible. Even when not grown, he's nothing to scoff at. It takes quite a good bit to get through his mental Defense, and to kill him (with no AP or 2x) takes 33 stones. There are next to no characters that can do that. It's expensive, yes, but letting someone keep something like that when they grow is over powered.
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Post by herugrim on May 20, 2007 13:15:05 GMT -5
Yes, you're right. It's powerful, and expensive. But I think the point that is being made is that being able to just grow (regardless of size and cons of growing), and still keep the instant healing factor regardless of how high you pump your Dur. I have to agree with Malice and pope, it is pretty unfair. Just for your info. Instant Healing Factor w/ Dur 3: CL 10 (15ws) Instant Healing Factor w/ Dur 10: CL 17 (50ws) Growth 7 + Instant Healing Factor w/ Dur 3: CL 9 (Growth) + CL 10 (Instant Healing Factor) (27ws) Again, yes, the character is growing a good bit. The character is also getting an Instant Healing Factor. Which means in order to incapacitate the character so that he will not heal next round, it will require a 30rs total damage to destroy him. And if the Factor instantly healed damage, as suggested earlier, this would mean that the damage would have to be all dealt in a single attack. And this is taking into assumption that the character has allocated nothing to Defense, has no toughness or other form of defense. So you figure, lets say, with a 40 stone char, + 10 in challanges. So you spend 27ws to get the combination. Dur 3 costs 3ws, and we'll just give him average stats all-around (2 3's, 2 4's) which equals 6ws. Just for giggles, we give him......6 mental defense, 4ws. We also give him Toughness +3, another 4ws. Close Combat 4, 2ws. Ranged Combat 3, 1ws. Gen Knowledge 3, 2ws. Magic Defense 3, 1ws. So, basically we have here a 50 stone char, who, when grown, is nigh-invincible. Even when not grown, he's nothing to scoff at. It takes quite a good bit to get through his mental Defense, and to kill him (with no AP or 2x) takes 33 stones. There are next to no characters that can do that. It's expensive, yes, but letting someone keep something like that when they grow is over powered. For a single character, yes, it's hard to beat that setup. However, for a small group with some good tactics, it's easy even if they aren't superheroes. Also, the GM isn't limited by stone counts when creating baddies. The whole "healing after each attack" deal doesn't work within the rules, as has been stated. You heal stones of health per panel, once. If two or more people attack you in that panel, all damage is still done. 33 stones split between four moderately talented fighters is still doable, or even less, with the right modifiers.
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Post by swsquall on May 20, 2007 13:37:37 GMT -5
I will not dispute that. Teamwork can take down nigh anything. But also keep in mind that this character (Assuming he put a 4 in Str.) will effectively be able to put up to 16 in Close Combat. Like I said, my example is taking into assumption the char has nothing allocated to defense.
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Post by herugrim on May 20, 2007 13:45:51 GMT -5
Indeed, those are a lot of stones to whip out, and there is the whole defense thing. But that's when situational modifiers can help tip the balance. Again, clever GMing. In the end it's all up to the boss. If the GM doesn't think he/she can handle it, it's certainly within their power to forbid it. Me? I look forward to the challenge
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