|
Post by bawonsamdi on May 23, 2007 8:38:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on May 23, 2007 9:25:10 GMT -5
Unless Im missing something, your rules seem to suggest that an entire team of heroes can be outfitted with "Advanced Alien Technology" for 20 stones??
|
|
|
Post by bawonsamdi on May 24, 2007 8:34:05 GMT -5
Well, you did miss something. Players can't spend all their stones into one single aspect, but only one fourth of their team pool.
So, if they want "advanced alien technology", they need a 80 creations stones pool before being allowed to spend 20 of them into Gear.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on May 24, 2007 16:26:04 GMT -5
ahhhh, yeah I did miss that. Better. But still... a mere 20 stones for that kind of technology is pretty cheap. Yeah, getting together a pool of 80 stones is difficult... but consider. 5 players with 40 stones each. Each agrees to pitch in 20 stones to the team pool, for a total of 100 stones.
I know what you're thinking... "who would be insane enough to reduce themselves by half for that??"
But look at what they can get... "Unlimited, Advanced Alien Gear" "Unlimited, Advanced Alien Weaponry" plus 2 or 3 more top notch goodies... all for the entire team....
|
|
|
Post by thedragonmaster on May 24, 2007 17:08:27 GMT -5
I'd tend to agree with wildknight on this one. It just seems like the costs are a little low for some of these items. Don't have the books on me to see what the comparative prices are on equipment (office/building costs seem about right to me iirc, but everything else...).
|
|
|
Post by malice on May 24, 2007 20:36:20 GMT -5
ahhhh, yeah I did miss that. Better. But still... a mere 20 stones for that kind of technology is pretty cheap. Yeah, getting together a pool of 80 stones is difficult... but consider. 5 players with 40 stones each. Each agrees to pitch in 20 stones to the team pool, for a total of 100 stones. I know what you're thinking... "who would be insane enough to reduce themselves by half for that??" But look at what they can get... "Unlimited, Advanced Alien Gear" "Unlimited, Advanced Alien Weaponry" plus 2 or 3 more top notch goodies... all for the entire team.... Most people tend to craft their characters on their own without the input of the others in MURPG. Also some people can't afford their concept + alien gear. I think the people willing to purchase this would be the same people willing to plan out a team where all the characters have "Helps others" on important aspects of the characters. I agree its powerful, but that kind cooperation is really cool, and the GM need only adjust the power of the campaign accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on May 25, 2007 6:03:34 GMT -5
Yes... he need only adjust it to a universal power game. The team... the ENTIRE team would have access to "unlimited alien technology." Consider that a moment. Essentially every member of the team could have access to whatever power they wanted. Alien technology, in the Marvel Universe, can stop time, shift through dimensions... well just think of an entire team of Kang/Immortus, and you're just about there.
Its hardly a great feat of cooperation to get 4 or 5 people to say "you know what... yes I do want to be absurdly powerful. Lets be a team!"
|
|
|
Post by bawonsamdi on May 25, 2007 9:20:36 GMT -5
OK WK, you already made your point. If you don't like it don't use it.
For me, that's not a problem mainly because i play with friends. And people saying "you know what... yes I do want to be absurdly powerful" are not amongs them. I must be lucky i guess ...
With a bit of imagination there are plenty of ways to limit abusive use of rules.
|
|
|
Post by Pope Mega Force on May 25, 2007 9:27:56 GMT -5
For me, that's not a problem mainly because i play with friends. And people saying "you know what... yes I do want to be absurdly powerful" are not amongs them. I must be lucky i guess ... Hm, what is that like anyway?
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on May 25, 2007 9:43:20 GMT -5
There are 2 types of GMs. Those who have and deal with the power gamers in their groups, and those who are delusional.
For the record... I play with friends too.
I also have a question... whats the point in posting things here if you're not willing to consider the thoughts of others?
Let me put it another way... 20 stones will not get you a single piece of equipment of "advanced alien technology" for one character. Why should it allow such for an entire group?
Caps Shield is 26 stones. Just for reference. And thats under-priced per the guidelines in the Avengers book (where its nearer 40 stones)
|
|
|
Post by bawonsamdi on May 30, 2007 4:33:04 GMT -5
I also have a question... whats the point in posting things here if you're not willing to consider the thoughts of others? I strongly consider your thoughts. But i have understood what you said the first time, so no need to say it THREE times. About power gamers the facts are: 1/ i don't care, i don't play with. 2/ if you do care, there are dozens of way to avoid rules abuses. Since it's a HOUSE rules subboards, i post rules fitted to my local game environment (i.e. my players). If they are fitted to your game environment, great ! If not, feel free to consider these rules as just a starting point and transform them as you wish. First it cost 20 stones but your PCs will need a 80 stones team pool. That's huge. the only way to get 80 stones at the begining is that each player spend a rather large amount of their creation stones into the team pool. then i have a suggestion for you, simply don't allow your players to spend creation stones into the team pool. The starting team pool will come from Wealth and Team Challenges. Hence you will have a begining team (with a low starting budget) instead of a well established one.
|
|
|
Post by Scriptus on May 30, 2007 7:56:15 GMT -5
Wow! I really like these rules. I'm surprised there wasn't more praise given for these things. This obviously took a lot of effort to think about and put down. Not having play tested this stuff yet I can't really speak to the balance of the pricing but if a group of players wanted to come up with a team this is the way to do it. Good job bawonsamdi!
As I read the rules of course they can be abused but preventing that is what a GM is for. That's not a good reason to get rid of a set of rules. I think the potential value of these rules far outweighs the potential abuse of them. Again I was really impressed by these rules. Keep up the good work bawonsamdi!
The only addtion I would like to see to these rules would be the cost of a team wealth modifier.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on May 30, 2007 8:16:14 GMT -5
Well thats kind of my point as well... if I thought they were useless rules I wouldnt comment at all. My point is that they *are* really useful rules... but they need some serious adjustment before they're balanced against the value of actually buying your own gear...
|
|
|
Post by Scriptus on May 30, 2007 8:23:36 GMT -5
With all due respect Wildknight, I would not have guessed that you thought they were useful from reading through your previous posts.
|
|
|
Post by WildKnight on May 30, 2007 8:48:39 GMT -5
Well, sorry for that, but its true. Lots of people post lots of house rules around here. Most of the time I dont comment because A. I think the rule is stupid, or B. I think its fine as it is.
In this case I commented for a very specific reason; I think the idea is a great one and the basis is sound. However, I definately think the options are entirely too cheap. It needs tweaking before it can be something thats as universally useful and well-accepted as, for instance, rules like Energy Battery and Entangle.
In all I think this idea has potential to greatly enhance the game. But I dont think it'll see general use until it is generally useful. Which it isn't, so long as the answer to every problem raised with the potential rule is "yeah, well, thats your fault because you play with power gamers and I dont! And Im a good GM so I can handle those things!"
Take a look around the board. I may not be a "good" GM but I must be doing something right as people seem to enjoy my games. I use ALOT of house rules and thats great, considering how badly written the original rules were. But by the same token, a good rule should take into account the broader rules of the game. What I'm talking about here is *comparitive cost*
If you compare the cost of the things you can get using these rules versus their cost for a single character... the reduction rate is very very high. Far too high.
If these rules were straightened out so that the costs weren't so deeply undercut, I'd be tempted to start a whole new game just to put them into action... but as it is I think they're just one more good idea thats going to sit on the shelf because instead of investing the time to make them work well, people seem more interested in getting huffy about the people who point out the weaknesses.
|
|