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Post by asawisemansaid on Jul 21, 2008 19:01:05 GMT -5
so last night when I should have been sleeping, I was thinking about this game and the Joker. The Joker doesn't seem to really gel into this system, as in actuality his stats would suck, and he really wouldn't be able to do much in the way of actions and modifiers. I started to shape an idea for what I am calling the insanity modifier. I feel like this not only reflects joker but a lot of other villains throughout the comicbook landscape.
this idea might be somewhat confusing, if you have any questions or ideas on how to better this, i would love to hear it. This is something completely new to me, and most of you here have more exp in this game than i do.
The first thing I thought of was that it seemed like the more beat up joker got, the stronger and more insane he often seems to be. this gave me the idea of reversing the dur to energy idea.
-The characters max energy when he is at full health is equal to 2x his dur. Whenever this character looses stones of health he adds his current health stones worth of energy to his max energy and adds 2x his current health worth of energy to his energy pool. This character always regens his durability # of energy per turn.
another thing i considered was that The Joker seems to be able to take more damage the more beat up he is. This is as a result to his insane mind reacting to pain differently than the norm.
-this character gains a toughness modifier equal to his dur-current health.
Finally the Joker as well as several other super insane super villains have shown an extreme resistance to mind altering effects. To this end:
-This character gains mental defense equal to 2x his durability number
As all of these abilities reference durability, it only makes sense that the cost would be based off of durability like healing factor. Since I would say it is about as good as enhanced healing factor, so i say it will cost dur#+5 cost levels. In addition, the player must take the Insane major psychological restriction challenge.
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Post by Stark on Jul 21, 2008 23:32:06 GMT -5
Well, as far as I'm concerned, I can make a pretty solid write-u for the Prince of Crime with the rules as they are, and though it is interesting, this idea seems a bit needlessly complicated. I'd stand with the good old rules as written in the books.
Then again, there are those who like it complicated, and so maybe this is a good rule for them, lol.
Though personally, I would've made the cost a bit higher. I mean, Toughness (even if it isn't always active) and Mental Defense (at 2x Durability!)... I'd say at least +6, but that's just my opinion, heh?
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Jul 22, 2008 0:22:55 GMT -5
For the most part, I agree with Stark. Really, energy shouldn't be a major problem with Joker, and some Energy Battery or Rapid Recovery could help with that. Instead of giving him this complicated Insanity modifier to make him more resistant to damage (and some other things) why not just give him those things all the time?
Start with Reflexive Dodge, add some Mental Defense, and either give him Energy Batter or don't. But this kind of number-crunching is a bit more work than I'd care to do.
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Post by asawisemansaid on Jul 22, 2008 0:51:49 GMT -5
I understand where both of you are coming from. Yes, if it is coming from three standard rules, it is a bit more complicated then is probably necessary for the build. However, I created this modifier to better express the flavor of the joker and other insane character. I dont feel like joker is tough all the time, as shown by batmans ability to ko him in one punch at times. On the other hand as long as he stays conscious, he seems to be able to do more damage and take more abuse the more he has already been beaten. Thanks a lot for your comments though.
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Post by Stark on Jul 22, 2008 9:47:33 GMT -5
No problem. It's just that in my opinion, Joker's simply a lot tough, and that your modifier would apply more to the more supernatural insane killers such as Jason and Michael Myers, but even in their case, I'd give 'em some solid Toughness, high Mental defense for being Insane, one of the Fast Healings stuff and quite possibly Reconstitute Self. Joker's absolutely one of the best humans out there in terms of "Hard-to-kill"ness, but he's still human, so I think Kaimontfendo's right: give him a good Reflexive Dodge ('cause a clown or not, Joker knows very well how to beat someone senseless and evade blows long enough to do so), give him highest Durability for humans (normally 3 according to the books, 4 in my games) and probably athletic level physical attributes. I'd go with Intelligence 4 "Gifted", because he's dang smart though he's not a genius, and a level or two of Energy Battery 'cause he's pretty hard to wear down. If one really wanted to give him Toughness, I'd go no higher than 1... After all, guys with Toughness's skin can pretty much stop bullet with their skin, and that so doesn't sound right in Joker's case. That's how I see the guy.
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Post by talon on Jul 22, 2008 10:00:45 GMT -5
Reminds me of the standard anime protagonist; the more you beat the snot out of them, the stronger they get until they can eventually win.
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Post by Stark on Jul 22, 2008 10:04:15 GMT -5
True enough, lol. But Anime characters are nowhere near limited to normal human abilities... not even Humans! It's like everyone is capable of breaking reinforced metal with one hand, jumping up and down skyscraper without being hurt and running up walls and stuff. Just train enough and you can defy the laws of physics! ;D
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Post by talon on Jul 22, 2008 10:43:01 GMT -5
so true... I've watched too much Bleach lately . Ever tried making a CAD for an anime hero? What strength rating do you give to Goku... really? I wouldn't be surprised to see SSJ4 Goku thump Hulk across a city.
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Post by Stark on Jul 22, 2008 10:49:46 GMT -5
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Post by talon on Jul 22, 2008 12:46:36 GMT -5
yeah, I saw your Hellsing CADs. At one point I started a CAD for Laharl from Disgaea and decided I was a bit out of my league. I found it somewhat impossible to calculate stats for a character that can be at one of 16,000 possible levels. Thought I don't really think any of the demons had particularly overboard Abilities, they definitly all have some insane actions and modifiers. I'd like to see CADs for Laharl, Zetta, and Etna though... but I think Etna was already done around here somewhere.
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Post by Stark on Jul 22, 2008 13:26:31 GMT -5
Yep, and by me also. I went for a pretty powerful version, but nothing overboard (as far as Disgaea can go) IMO. Here goes: ETNA The talented Beauty Queen Age: 1473 Height: 5'2" Weight: 128 lbs Eye color: Red Hair color: Red Species: Demon Lord ABILITIES (37w) Int: 5 Str: 7 Agl: 6 Spd: 5 Dur: 6 HEALTH: 6 ENERGY: 24 ACTIONS (60w) Close Combat:6 (Str.bonus or Weapon modifier) -Brawling -Dirty Fighting -Archaic Weapons -Sexy fighting -Breaking limbs -Extreme violence Ranged combat: 5 (Weapon modifier) -Guns -Bows -Thrown prinnies -Thrown objects -Thrown knives Flight: 3 -Maximum speed is 2 when carrying others Leadership: 6 Mastery of Magic: 6 Sorcery: 4 (Int.bonus) Call Prinnies: 5 -Works as Summoning -May only summon Prinnies -May bully (generally by smashing them on the head) or buy them to make them obey instead of controlling them General Knowledge: 4 (Int.bonus) -Scheming and plotting -The Netherworlds -Black Magic -Demon Lords and Overlords Social Skills: 7 -Socialize -Intimidate -Beauty Queen -Charm -Seduce -Threats and insults -Inspire fear MODIFIERS (44w) -Tail +1 (as claws) -Enhanced Healing Factor -Magical Defense +6 -Reflexive Dodge +3 -Toughness +3 (no AP, no 2x damage from Firearms or projectiles) -Energy Battery 2 (adds 3 to max energy each) -Wealth: 6 CHALLENGES (-24w) -Looking non-human -3 (red eyes, little bat wings, demonic tail... she's a cute little devil of mass-destruction.) -Temper (-3; she's easy to piss off, and never dare to call her "flat-chested"!) -Haunted past (-3, the death of King Krichevskoy and her betrayal of Laharl's trust) -Deadly enemies (-6, many demons hoping to beat her to the prize of becoming the Supreme Overlord!) -Conflicting interests (-4, between becoming more powerful and wealthy, and finding true friends and love) -Extreme vanity (-2, as she is "the Talented Beauty Queen, Etna!") -Obsession (-3, becoming the Supreme Overlord of all Netherworlds!) -Extreme greed and ambition (-3) EQUIPMENT -"Holy Longinus": +5 to Close Combat, Armor Penetrating. An enchanted daemonic lance (why is it called holy?!) which has been created to kill, maim and destroy to its wielder's content. Cost: 13 stones. -Close-fitting Leather suit (+1 to Defense)
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Post by Lord Zack on Jul 22, 2008 13:51:21 GMT -5
The rules in Dionon's Dragonball Z Game could probably do the canon characters pretty good as well. I'm considering stating up at least Goku myself.
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Post by Kaimontfendo on Jul 22, 2008 16:07:00 GMT -5
Getting (sort of) back on topic... I'd go with Intelligence 4 "Gifted", because he's dang smart though he's not a genius, and a level or two of Energy Battery 'cause he's pretty hard to wear down. Personally, I'd argue that his intelligence should be higher, although that does depend on which Joker you're talking about. In The Dark Knight, he doesn't really show off that much intellect. However, the animated Joker, who cheats death by copying his psyche onto a microchip... He's arguably a genius and then some.
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Post by Stark on Jul 22, 2008 16:11:54 GMT -5
Yeah, I was convinced a while ago in another thread that the Joker should have around 5 or 6 in Intelligence. Sorry about that, my mistake.
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