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Post by shadowagent on Nov 20, 2008 4:52:28 GMT -5
Ok Punisher is a bad ass... Ive read all his Max series and then some (Ghosts of the Innocent read it nao) but to give the punisher 4 durability is to put him on the level of ppl like Captain America. I LOVE Frank and all... But Cap would kick his a s s to WW3 (without a shield). the Toughness tho... GREAT Idea. Ive argued that he should have it, the guy takes bullets and pees them out like kidney stones. Gunsmithing is a great idea, modifies his own guns, but that could just be a special forces option in my opinion. the Medical skill is a bit high, Franks no surgeon, hes just damned tough and knows how to take out bullets and stop bleeding. maybe a 2. Energy battery is dumb. x2 nat healing = nope. hes not a super soldier. ref dodge of 3 and targeting of 3 are great tho. and mental defense of 2 is awesome, I mean this guy endures TORTURE, doesnt break a f'in sweat... All in all I think the write up is good, but he is human after all and still gets smacked up by Daredevil unless he plans ahead.
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Post by chaosbringer on Nov 20, 2008 22:46:34 GMT -5
Okay, I actually agree with the above, on everything. All valid points.
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Post by Stark on Nov 21, 2008 10:00:37 GMT -5
I could agree with 2x Natural Healing (and even then, I wouldn't go any lower than Rapid Regeneration), but I simply disagree with the rest of your disagreeing. Of course Cap can beat him easy, but that doesn't necessarily mean he should be under him in every ability. It only means that overall, Cap can defeat him easy (by the way, IMO, a 'normal human' with maximal training and top physical form should get 3 in most physical abilities and 4 in a single one. That's a house rule of mine), and the Punisher has survived things that most guys with Durability 3 would probably never have. So I stick with the 4. Plus, let's face it, Cap's shield plays a big part in his "can beat anybody who's not a tough superhuman" thing. About Medical Healing, Frank's no surgeon, true. I would agree for penalties were he to attempt such a thing, heavy ones at that, which means he probably wouldn't even try it. However, he's been part of the army, the CIA, secret service and stuff, and suffered massive damage during his Punisher days, so I'm thinking he's getting very good at it. Personally I'd stick to 3. Energy Battery isn't dumb and is more than appropriate for a tireless guy such as him. It reflects the fact that Frank Castle just keeps going and going, never giving the time to rest to the criminal underworld. Most heroes of Marvel should have at least one level of Energy Battery, except perhaps low-level hero wannabes such as Jubilee (sorry to all fans of Jubilation Lee). Heck, even Cyclops should have one. The rest you said I agree with. Still, thanks for your comments, it's just that from what I've seen of him, I think he more than enough deserve what I've written on that CAD. As for Cap and Daredevil, their CADs in the books aren't perfect either and could use a bit of refreshing, just like almost all CADs in those books, lol.
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Post by mcfly on Nov 21, 2008 10:32:32 GMT -5
the thing is captain america should have higher ability scores captain america was improved by a super soldier serum, punisher is just highly trained.
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Post by chaosbringer on Nov 21, 2008 12:21:53 GMT -5
I agree with mcfly, Punisher is only human, awesome human, but human nonetheless. His ability to survive better than most should be reflected in a toughness mod(and other static def) NOT a superhuman DUR 4. I like Energy Battery for most CAD's, but in this case I see it and rapid recovery as detracting from the gritty nature of his battles. He's out of breath and otherwise pushed to the limit all the time, what makes him so BA is that he gets past it and still manages to get the job done. I really like the gunsmithing as a special ops option, which is an action that should be much more versatile anyway. I mean all that training and all he gets to do is sneak up on people?
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Post by MadCap on Nov 21, 2008 14:55:54 GMT -5
One question. Why does Punisher have Reflexive Dodge of +3? I think Cap America has Ref Dodge of +2 and he seems to have a far more acrobatic style of combat that includes dodging with his super soldier enhanced reflexes and eye hand coordination. What's Frank Castle's excuse? Marvel trying to make up for the bad movies? MadCap
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Post by Stark on Nov 22, 2008 18:51:58 GMT -5
That would be an opinion, not a fact. As is my CAD, by the way. LOL. ;D He has 3 in Ref.Dodge because I had stones left for the game I was in...
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Post by MadCap on Nov 22, 2008 19:56:18 GMT -5
That would be an opinion, not a fact. As is my CAD, by the way. LOL. ;D He has 3 in Ref.Dodge because I had stones left for the game I was in... Wish I had that problem often.... You do realize he has a better dodge than Spiderman now right? MadCap
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Post by chaosbringer on Nov 23, 2008 22:15:46 GMT -5
Look, if it's cool with your GM do what you want to, BUT I don't want to see people posting restats of classic characters with random DUR 4, healing factors, CC 8, and mastery of bullets!?!
In the past I've really enjoyed the CAD's you've posted(and I liked this one, too... mostly ^_^), but I also want people to be mindful that there is a pre-established scaling system to this game and encourage them to follow it.
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Post by shadowagent on Nov 25, 2008 20:57:48 GMT -5
Ive played the punisher with the CAD ive given you in a solo game a friend of mines runs for me (freakin awesome GM) and ive taken out ppl like Tombstone and even Venom (modified to his real abilities) with some creative thinking and use of cover. Punisher doesnt always run in gun blazing, he thinks smart, and I encourage anyone who plays him to think of him in terms of a dark batman. He plans and strategizes and makes things happen no matter the foe. C-4 is ftw.
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Post by Dominus on Aug 12, 2009 20:30:54 GMT -5
I don't know about the 7 Ranged C and 7 Close Combat. Why are those so high? His CC is higher than daredevil's? And his RC is equal to captain america's? He's good, but I don't think he's that good.
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Post by Stark on Aug 12, 2009 21:22:03 GMT -5
Look, if it's cool with your GM do what you want to, BUT I don't want to see people posting restats of classic characters with random DUR 4, healing factors, CC 8, and mastery of bullets!?! In the past I've really enjoyed the CAD's you've posted(and I liked this one, too... mostly ^_^), but I also want people to be mindful that there is a pre-established scaling system to this game and encourage them to follow it. Oh really? A pre-established scaling system? You mean the one in the books with the oh-so-many mistakes in it and things that make no sense at all in it? (EDIT: I know it sounds sarcastic, but that sarcasm is directed at the books, not you. No offense meant.) With all due respect, the only "pre-established" scaling system that people really take into consideration on this board is reason and logic, mostly, and also if a character has done what his CAD says he can do in the past. For example, this... ...means little to me since Spider-Man's CAD, like so many others, isn't really accurate. Also, a "dodge" in MURPG just isn't only "Reflexive Dodge". A "dodge" can also be how many stones a character can put in defense while still being efficient in offensive power, and Spider-Man has plenty of that, plus Spider-Man has his spider-senses, plus Spider-Man would regenerate energy aster than the Punisher. Besides, I could have made a Punisher CAD of him when he just became the Punisher. I could have made a Punisher CAD of the modern Punisher. I could have made a Punisher CAD of him after some kind of event happened to him that made him better at something, or I could have made a CAD of him from another dimension. As long as I'm somewhat reasonable, all would make some sense, because of the "context". You see, ask everybody to make a Punisher CAD and you will see absolutely no two CADs that will be exactly identical. And I'm not talking about the page setting here... my Punisher has 4 in Durability because I have house ruled that even humans can have a single physical ability at 4 and the rest at 3, given they are exceptionally trained and have a good potential in said ability. Individuals with physical attributes of 4 who are still human beings in my games are possible. They are few and far between, but they are possible. Henceforth, in the context of 'my' games, a Punisher with Durability of 4 is perfectly acceptable and reasonable. As for the "random CC 8" and "Close Combat and RC of 7, higher than Daredevil and stuff" arguments, that really is just a matter of opinion, and, again, you are comparing my CAD to those in the books, which (my apologies to whoever made them)... well... suck, according to me. Frank Castle is a veteran of several wars, he's been a special commando, an anti-terrorist agent, a member of the CIA, etc, and was considered as a top-notch agent in every group he was part of... he has defeated entire criminal gangs by himself, battled super-villains and lived to tell about it and frequently fights the Maggia, Kingpin and his empire and lotsa others. Maybe you can reason his success as being only a matter of having the writers on his side... but when I read the Punisher, I see "exceptionally skilled man with outstanding resistance to pain and marksmanship", not "above average typical angsty soldier, who is kinda lucky to be still alive and who owes his life only to the writers and not much to his own skills and prowess". This is, like I said, only a matter of opinion, and I believe as many people could agree with me as others could disagree. In theory anyway. Daredevil, IMO, is overrated and a bit too powerful in the books (and not enough skilled in some other non-combat related actions). The guy did trained a lot and all, and he's a natural athlete, granted. But he's no war veteran, nor was he trained to kill in seven different ways with a fork (okay, now I'm exaggerating, lol) like the Punisher was. Also, Daredevil has a life outside his crime-hunting activities, and a secret identity. He's a blind lawyer most of the time, heck. The Punisher sleeps a few hours, go fight baddies, eat, go fight baddies, eat again, go fight baddies, sleep a bit, go fight baddies... to me, added to his past and experience in so many combat oriented careers, that's a perfectly reasonable explanation of him being better than Daredevil in a fight... although DD can defeat him using his powers and some quick thinking... and his trusty sticks. Again, Captain America should be better IMO. I also blame this on the monkeys with typewritters who wrote the MURPG books, lol. ============================================== Anyway. So, you may disagree with me all you want, that is your right and I respect that. However, do know I write everything I do on a CAD for a reason. Some crappier than others, (that Ref.Dodge of 3 because I had stones left was a bad one, for example, lol). But that bad example aside, USUALLY everything I write makes sense from a certain viewpoint. This Punisher is my viewpoint of him at his peak, with a few twists here and there and made a bit better because I had some stones left. I haven't posted him here to please everybody (nor do I think it is reasonably possible to do that), but to give an example of what he would look like more or less according to Stark (whose opinion is just as good as others', but it's still worthy of being mentionned). It was posted only for sharing with others and who knows, inspiring people to make their own. That being said, live long and prosper, don't worry be happy and all that jazz! ^_^ Stark
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Post by Stark on Aug 12, 2009 21:54:32 GMT -5
Please note that although I may sound fiery when arguing about why I made a CAD this or that way (which is the case, I do am fiery then, lol), I still like to hear people's comments. It's just that I also like explaining to people why I argue about the CAD in the first place, lol.
I'm far from always right, and some people know the character better than me. Will that stop me from making my own Punisher CAD?...... no way, niet, duibùqi, no lo creo. Nor should that stop others from making their own. ^_^
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