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Post by pgholland on Nov 17, 2006 15:34:09 GMT -5
Right Ok, I've just finished reading Young Avengers, and i thought someone should take up the monumental task of statting them up, so here it goes, I've left Wiccan and Hulkling for now as I wonder what you think on their powers (Hex-Spheres and Metamorphosis i was thinking) but comments on any are welcome. I've done a cost breakdown BUT have not included challenges for them, but really wouldn't make much of a difference, especially for some of them.
Patriot
Abilities (11w 2r)
Int: 2
Str: 4
Agi: 4
Spd: 3
Dur: 4
Actions (4w 2r)
Close Combat: 3
Strength Bonus
Hand-to-hand
Defensive Fighting
Ranged Combat:3
Throwing Stars
Acrobatics: 3
Agility Bonus
Leadership: 2
Social Skills: 3
Teenager
Inspiration
Underworld
Modifiers (11w 1r)
Toughness (No x2 damage or armour penetration) +2
Reflexive Dodge +2
Enhanced Senses (1)
Targeting (Throwing Stars only) +2
x2 Natural Healign Rate
Wealth (0)
Equipment (10w)
Bulletproof Costume (+2 Defence)
Shield (+4 Defence)
Throwing Stars (+2)
Total Cost: 37w 2r
Hawkeye
Abilities (6w)
Int: 2
Str: 2
Agi: 3
Spd: 2
Dur: 3
Actions (3w 1r)
Close Combat: 2
Agility Bonus
Sword
Using Bow as a weapon
Ranged Combat: 4
Bows
Trick Shots
Acrobatics: 2
Agility Bonus
Social Skills: 4
Socialite
Charm
Teenage Culture
Rebellion
Modifiers (12w)
Taargeting +3
Reflexive Dodge +1
Wealth (6)
Equipment (25w)
Hawkeye's Quiver
Hawkeye's Bow
Hawkeye's Arrows
Bulletproof Costume (+1 Defence)
Total Cost: 48 w 1r
Stature
Abilities (5w 2r)
Int: 2
Str: 2
Agi: 2
Spd: 2
Dur: 3
Actions (10w 1r)
Close Combat: 2
Strength Bonus
Fighting Smaller Opponents
Fighting Larger Opponents
Growth: 2
General Knowledge: 1
The Avengers
Shrink: 6
Social Skills: 3
Teenage Culture
Avengers Protocol
Modifiers (3w)
Reflexive Dodge +1
Wealth (3)
Equipment
Costume of Unstable Molecules (+1 Defence, grows or shrinks with her)
Total Cost: 19w
The Vision
Abilities (10w 2r)
A.I.: 5
Str: 5
Agi: 4
Spd: 6
Dur: 5
Actions (61w 1r)
Close Combat: 4
Strength Bonus
Avengers Training
Vision Memories
Iron Lad Style
Ranged Combat: 3
Energy Weapons
Vision Memories
Iron Lad Training
Acrobatics: 2
Strength Bonus
Flight : 2
Manipulate Body Density: 7
Phase Attack
Phase Stun
Energy Beam: 7
Microwave (AP)
Infrared
Shape-Shifting: 1
Social Skills: 2
Iron Lad
Avenger's Protocol
Modifiers (15w)
Artificial Emotion 3
Toughness (No x2 Damage, No AP) =4
Self Contained Life-form
Solar Regeneration (As Healing Factor in Sunlight)
Limited Prescience (Manipulate Body Density)
Wealth (-1)
Total Cost: 87 w
Speedster
Abilities (32w)
Int: 4
Str: 4
Agi: 5
Spd: 10*
Dur: 5
Actions (16w 2r)
Close Combat: 2
Speed Bonus
Hand-to-hand
Fast Punches
Force Blast: 6
x2 Damage or Area Attack
Social Skills: 2
Teenage Culture
Juvenile Delinquent
Modifiers (4w)
Reflexzive Dodge +4
Wealth (-1)
Equipment: Unstable Molecule Costume (+1 Defence)
Total Cost: 52w 2r
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Post by Beacon on Nov 17, 2006 20:27:12 GMT -5
My knowledge of the characters is sketchy. I know Cassie from other books but with the others all I really have to go on are the crossover mini with the Runaways and a bunch of random scanned panels or plot summaries from CW and YA.
Wiccan – How literal are his codenames? Maybe give him Asgardian Sorcery or Witchcraft (which includes Hex-Spheres) with Magical Travel (or does he ONLY fly and teleport?) and the prerequisite Mastery of Magic.
Hulkling – The Skrull half of him would probably be best covered by making him a pretty standard Metamorph (possibly with Shape shifting as a separate power so he can access it quickly). The Kree half would probably give him base physical stats of 2-4 (rather than the human 1-3). Maybe toss in a low AN for Statecraft just because of his political figurehead status.
Patriot – The stats seem kinda high. I thought he was just a human pretending to be superhuman. Aren’t his grandfather and uncle the only real Super Soldiers in the family?
Stature – Probably ought to have an appropriate specialty in General Knowledge and/or Social Skills to reflect the time she spent with the F4 (similar to her existing Avengers-related ones). I guess you could also make the case for giving her higher intelligence because Kristoff Vernard (you know, Reed Richards’ alleged half-brother and the protégé and heir of Doctor freaking Doom) complimented her in that particular area (at the same time he was mocking her father’s intelligence even though Scott Lang is a four in this game) but that might be dismissible because he had an obvious crush on Cassie and hated Scott.
Vision 2.0 – I thought he was as much Kang as he was Vision but his stats seem entirely based off the Vision with a couple minor tweaks. Shouldn’t certain aspects of the character (Intelligence, Social Skills, General Knowledge of the future, Close/Ranged Combat, ect) be based off Iron Lad while the other functions of the new Vision would be a combination of the old Vision and the future technology Iron Lad brought with him. Speaking of technology, it also ought to include an ability the original Vision had that the Avengers Guide omitted; Vision ought to have the Technology action with the Transference and Simultaneously Occupy Multiple Machines options. We just saw that the new Vision is also capable of hijacking computer systems at the end of the crossover with the Runaways.
Speed – I was under the impression that his secondary power was more a “Charge Objects” than a Force Blast.
If I ever get the time I might dig out the new handbooks and compare their stats (at least in terms of things like intelligence where it’s hard to gather from the actual comics).
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Post by pgholland on Nov 18, 2006 7:27:33 GMT -5
Wiccan – How literal are his codenames? Maybe give him Asgardian Sorcery or Witchcraft (which includes Hex-Spheres) with Magical Travel (or does he ONLY fly and teleport?) and the prerequisite Mastery of Magic. Hulkling – The Skrull half of him would probably be best covered by making him a pretty standard Metamorph (possibly with Shape shifting as a separate power so he can access it quickly). The Kree half would probably give him base physical stats of 2-4 (rather than the human 1-3). Maybe toss in a low AN for Statecraft just because of his political figurehead status. Patriot – The stats seem kinda high. I thought he was just a human pretending to be superhuman. Aren’t his grandfather and uncle the only real Super Soldiers in the family? Stature – Probably ought to have an appropriate specialty in General Knowledge and/or Social Skills to reflect the time she spent with the F4 (similar to her existing Avengers-related ones). I guess you could also make the case for giving her higher intelligence because Kristoff Vernard (you know, Reed Richards’ alleged half-brother and the protégé and heir of Doctor freaking Doom) complimented her in that particular area (at the same time he was mocking her father’s intelligence even though Scott Lang is a four in this game) but that might be dismissible because he had an obvious crush on Cassie and hated Scott. Vision 2.0 – I thought he was as much Kang as he was Vision but his stats seem entirely based off the Vision with a couple minor tweaks. Shouldn’t certain aspects of the character (Intelligence, Social Skills, General Knowledge of the future, Close/Ranged Combat, ect) be based off Iron Lad while the other functions of the new Vision would be a combination of the old Vision and the future technology Iron Lad brought with him. Speaking of technology, it also ought to include an ability the original Vision had that the Avengers Guide omitted; Vision ought to have the Technology action with the Transference and Simultaneously Occupy Multiple Machines options. We just saw that the new Vision is also capable of hijacking computer systems at the end of the crossover with the Runaways. Speed – I was under the impression that his secondary power was more a “Charge Objects” than a Force Blast. As Wiccan is Scarlet-Witch's son and has her powers (as speedster has Quicksilvers) I thought he'd be more Hex-Spheres. But he only flies. Hulkling has never led so i wouldn't give him statecraft- he didn't want the duty. Read YA #12 he gets a blood transfusion from his father and becomes a super-soldier. That was the problem with Cassie, she's not well fleshed out enough, and she certainly doesn't seem overly intelligent. Well no he's Vision, with aspects of Iron Lad not the other way around, so I took Vision's stats, boosted them (because Jarvis mentions that he's actually tougher than Vision) and reduced the 'learnt' ones as he's a child really. I haven't yet read the Runaways-YA crossover, so that one is beyond me as of this moment, but possibly yes. No he can do it at range, so i thought Force Blast was more appropriate than having an excessively expensive Charge Objects action, but either would work. |
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Post by pgholland on Nov 18, 2006 14:36:37 GMT -5
I've not got my books at my side at the moment so this one will probably need a lot of tweaking and no cost either but here goes;
Hulkling
Int: 2
Str: 5
Agi: 3
Spd: 3
Dur: 4
Close Combat: 2
Strength Bonus
Hand-to-hand
Metamorphosis: 8
1 hour or until changed
Transform in 1 'action' (+4 levels?)
Shape-Shifting: 2
Social Skills: 2
Teenage Culture
Modifiers:
Toughness +1
Wealth (1)
Equipment:
Unstable Molecule Costume (+1 Defence)
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Post by Beacon on Nov 19, 2006 0:21:34 GMT -5
As Wiccan is Scarlet-Witch's son and has her powers (as speedster has Quicksilvers) I thought he'd be more Hex-Spheres. But he only flies. Looks like teleportation to me… community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/2017887.htmlIn terms of his other powers, well that’s tricky. He claims to be a Wiccan (which would mean Witchcraft) but the powers he used/attempted in the Runaways crossover seemed more consistent with Sorcery (specifically, the sleep spell that the villain prevented from working). Then there’s the standard blasts and barriers that come with Mastery of Magic. I’m probably missing something key to the YA series here but I don’t get why you’d assume his powers work exactly like his mother’s do in the game. Heck, ever since Bendis’ Disassembled retcon, Wanda’s powers don’t even work the way they do in the game. True but just his presence could end wars and Statecraft works best on subjects/followers anyway so I think at least an “inspire others” specialty would be relevant. Actually, considering who his father was, he could probably still use it to a lesser extent on some humans and Kree. His father is one too? So Patriot is the only one of his grandfather’s decedents who wasn’t born a Super Soldier? She has more history than all her teammates (well, assuming you don’t count Iron Lad or Vision’s other incarnations) put together. Though, in all fairness, even Reed Richards has come off as downright stupid in the past year.  I was under the impression that Vision 2.0 was to Young Kang what the classic Vision was to Wonder Man and Vision 2.0 is to the Iron Lad armor (or the classic Vision’s remains)* what the classic Vision is to the original Human Torch. *I’m still a little fuzzy on which shell was actually used for the new Vision. *shrug* I just figured it’d be better to go with accuracy than affordability. His teammate, the Vision, is already ridiculously expensive so what are a few extra stones at that point? |
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Post by pgholland on Nov 19, 2006 7:02:47 GMT -5
With Wiccan it's just a codename, like he was Asgardian before, his powers do seem to be spellcastery but he has had no magical training or anything, it's more like he wills things to happen and they do with a little effort, so I wasn't sure about giving him spellcasting abilities as Hex-Spheres could do most of what he does. And I've not read Civil War yet, i hate the entire premise of it, but I've made an exception for YA, but it's sold out, so I haven't got them yet.
I still don't know about Statecraft- it's not something he tries to do, just something that happens, it's morea factor of challenges and story I would have thought.
Sorry I meant his grandfather.
But up until now she's just been an extra, in YA she really has nothing, she's almost like the token girl like they have Token Gays too.
Amen to the Richards thing, in fact forget that Stan Lee and his writers are the one's who've been stupid.
Young Vision is Iron Lad's armour but with Vision's abilities, only slightly tougher. It's got some of his memory engrams imprinted on it but it's Vision's mind mainly. It's a difficult one to call as he's only had a few issues (and 4 of those i haven't seen, but from the 6 I have i did my best, hopefully I'lll have the Civil War stuff soon and then I'll hopefully be able to do something with him)
Speedster just excites molecules, he doesn't need to touch, and he doesn't need to throw, so it seemed more like a Force Blast without a beam or anything, Charge Objects didn't seem quite right, a Mastery of Matter might even be more appropriate.
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Post by Beacon on Nov 19, 2006 22:17:54 GMT -5
It isn’t like everyone with magical powers has to have training. I was under the impression that Wiccan’s magical abilities were just innate.
CW is one big character assassinating mess and I’m pretty annoyed when it involves characters and/or books I like. The Runaways/Young Avengers mini was actually the exception since it gave the teams a chance to interact (though the mini itself was fairly mediocre and not worthy of what I’ve read in Runaways or heard about in terms of the quality of the writing in Young Avengers).
Thanks for the info on Patriot, Stature, and Vision.
What does Stan Lee have to do with the mess Joe Q, JMS, Millar, ect have made of Marvel? Stan hasn’t worked at Marvel in any capacity since he was fired.
Again, I just figured that you could simply add a cost level per increased range beyond Charge Objects’ normal effective range of zero. I figured it was a nice compromise between a cheap force blast and an expensive Mastery.
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Post by pgholland on Nov 20, 2006 5:24:21 GMT -5
It could be Magic, it's just that panel of preparation that I don't like, especially as he does a lot of Lightning based force blasts.But if he did have it I'd say he'd probably have all the magical actions save for Magical Travel and Summoning.
At last! Someone else who hates it! As I said i've not had chance to read the Runaways/Young Avengers yet, but the YA writing is excellent, it really captures what teenagers are, so I'll be disappointed if it doesn't live up, and the artwork in it is awesome, but I think the crossover has the Runaway's artist rather than YA's.
I'm still not convinced that Charge Objects quite captures it. I think that I'll have to wait to see what more is done (In CW and if they resume YA- which so far they haven't planned from what I can see.)
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Post by Beacon on Nov 20, 2006 16:24:16 GMT -5
It could be Magic, it's just that panel of preparation that I don't like, I’ve never been nuts about that rule myself. Still, considering he seems to have to verbally cast his spells, it seems appropriate where he’s concerned. Besides, the need for preparation isn’t as big a negative when you have a decent-sized team watching your back. That seems more a matter of flavor than anything else. A magical blast that looks like lightning is still a magical blast. You mean Voodoo and Summoning? You clearly haven’t been to the right sites. This thing has even more plot holes than the DC books did a year ago. It seems to me that most people who do follow CW are doing it for one of a few reasons… 1) They’re gullible and really buy into the “this will change things forever” hype so they’re getting them out of a desire to stay current with the status quo. 2) They’re gullible and really buy into the “this will change things forever” hype so they’re getting them because they’re speculators who want to cash in on things like the Spider-Man Unmasking. 3) They hate it but follow it because of the whole fascination some have with train wrecks. 4) After five years of nothing but talking heads they’re so desperate for a knock-down, drag-out action story that they’re willing to put up with one with such a weak premise. The funny part is, unlike Marvel’s other recent stories, the whole registration issue is one that actually COULD be solved with Bendis-style talking heads (especially if those heads belong to Anti-Reg lawyers, politicians, reporters, ect pointing out just how unconstitutional the whole thing is). Actually the Runaways/Young Avengers mini was drawn by Stefano Caselli. Adrian Alphona is the regular Runaways artist (at least until BKV leaves). Caselli isn’t even one of the fill-in guys. My understanding is that there’s going to be a second volume but, between CW and the writer’s infamous lateness (I know YA was plagued by chronic delays and, from what I hear, the guy can’t even keep Wonder Woman on a bi-monthly schedule), it's been pushed back. |
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Post by pgholland on Nov 20, 2006 16:52:50 GMT -5
You're right about the magic, i've never seen him do voodoo, but there's nothing saying he couldn't...
There's another reason, the people I know are liking it because they don't read marvel, they look at the pictures and like the cool fights, they don't value marvel as being the company that valued characters as people not powers.
Hmm, from what i'd seen the art looked different though... maybe the artist changed his style then.
I hope they do, and I love the writer from the OC (well love the OC too) he's really captured the art of a teenager (then again as he's writing for 20 somethings 'pretending' to be the children of 30 somethings and doing it convincingly he must be good). So at least it has more than one author.
I think therefore I'll leave Wiccan either for someone else to do, or until I get my hands on the CW story.
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Post by Dionon on Nov 25, 2006 20:12:46 GMT -5
The funny part is, unlike Marvel’s other recent stories, the whole registration issue is one that actually COULD be solved with Bendis-style talking heads (especially if those heads belong to Anti-Reg lawyers, politicians, reporters, ect pointing out just how unconstitutional the whole thing is). *sigh* I knew someone was going to say something like this about the CW... Do you realize that the Superhuman Registration act is merely an extention of the Handgun Registration Act, and the act that forces Black Belt martial artists and military personal to register their hands as leathal weapons. It's something that is very much in good taste, and with all the recent changes in law nowadays, it's not unheard of that if we had masked vigilantes running around here that we wouldn't do the same exact thing. Think about it, if the town next to yours blew up, you'd be pretty pissed, and the society we live in today is completley reactionarily-proactive, meaning we react with haste and try to prevent the next disaster from happening. Which is something that goes right along the lines of the CW premise. Honestly, I've examined the issue, and find myself leaning towards Iron Man's side (at least I was till I read CW4 man that freaked the hell out of me). Why should people that can break your neck in an instant not be registered as leathal weapons? Why should someone who has a force blast that can bore a hole in a mountain of diamond be allowed to use it willy nilly, while the hunter has to go through hell just to get his permits? Why should people like Moon Knight, Black Cat, Daredevil, Captain America, Punisher, etc not have their hands registered as leathal weapons just as normal everyday martial artists do? Why shouldn't someone like Spiderman, who, according to the DnR charts is 8 times more agile than max human potential, and, at least now, is also 8 times stronger be registered as a leathal weapon? Have you really thought about the premise of this story arc? Or are you just reacting in the way that someone who didn't wanna register would react? |
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Post by Manticore on Nov 25, 2006 20:31:51 GMT -5
Exactly. How is an act preventing people acting as vigilantes unconstitutional? If the pro-registration side hadn't been portrayed as a group of murdering assholes then I might have been sympathetic to them. As it is, Bendis is struggling for reasons for the Marvel Universe to maintain the status quo.
Think about it. Spider-man and the X-men have been portrayed by the Marvel Universe media as criminals for years. The public have no idea who the criminals are. They have a right to know that the people who are trying to save them have some kind of authorisation. If I were living in the Marvel Universe then I would be living in permanent fear. That kind of thing only lasts so long before the government decides to act.
Civil War has focussed solely on the disadvantages of the superhuman registration act and glossed over the advantages of it. Any writer aiming for any kind of realism would have implemented the act years ago. But that would necessitate permanent changes to the Marvel Universe, and of course they're not about to do that. Oh no.
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Post by Dionon on Nov 25, 2006 20:39:18 GMT -5
It's sad isn't it? Would changing the status quo be so bad? I mean so the next generation of super heroes have to get licenses... Is that such a wrong thing? Vigilantism has been illegal in BOTH universes for decades, it's really about time that the Marvel Universe is actually recognizing that fact.
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Post by Beacon on Nov 26, 2006 0:20:51 GMT -5
*sigh* I knew someone was going to say something like this about the CW... Do you realize that the Superhuman Registration act is merely an extention of the Handgun Registration Act, and the act that forces Black Belt martial artists and military personal to register their hands as leathal weapons. I’ll keep it brief to avoid a lengthy Anti-CW rant but I will point out that the comparison you made falls apart under any real examination of the issues. Black belts, gun owners, soldiers, ect make a conscious decision to be what they are while most superhumans don’t. Most superpowered individuals in the MU are either what they are as the result of a accident (Spider-Man, Hulk, ect) or birth (mutants, Inhumans, aliens, ect) and as such registration is more a form of persecution where they’re concerned. Ironically enough, registration as you see it should really only apply to guys like Captain America and Iron Man because they voluntarily gained powers through a super-soldier serum, high-tech armor, ect. |
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Post by Dionon on Nov 26, 2006 1:05:42 GMT -5
In actuality, each and every super hero made a choice to BE a super hero. They could have walked, they could have said "Ok, I have powers, let me go pull this train, make a million dollars, and go home to sleep"
Being a super hero is not a thing that just "happens" it's a concious decision made by everyone in spandex. Granted I think marvel is going a LITTLE overboard (you know... CW #4 to be precise), but their premise is a sound one. I'm not going to rant at you, I am mearly bringing healthy debate.
Remember, Spiderman is Spiderman because he chose to be.
The X-Men are the X-Men because they chose to be
The Fantastic Four are the Fantastic Four because they chose to be
The funny thing is that the ultimate example of Hero by Choice is actually going along with the "law" My ultimate example of the hero choice is Songbird (though I don't know what's happened to her in recent months, I've been spotty on my comics..) She was a villain, Screamin Mimi if I remember right, but though it began as a ruse, she eventually CHOSE to be a hero. That made her just as responsible for her actions as the martial artist, the army guy, and the gun owner.
So my argument falls on the money when you extend the meaning of choice to the extent that one is responsible for their own actions taken at the time that something happens. It's cause and effect
Cause: I choose to be a costumed vigilante
Effect: I am now responsible for the actions and reactions around me that I provoke.
Just like someone with a gun, a blackbelt or an stint in the army.
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