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Post by venkelos on Dec 31, 2008 20:56:40 GMT -5
I was sitting around, trying to decide an Action to make, when it hit me; I was missing Naruto. While watching that, I was reminded that one of the cool abilities was that of Summoning. Now, in MURPG, Summoning is one of the crappiest, most worthless of Actions, due in no small part to its being vague. Exactly what you an do with it, and what you need, is never clear, and even the little things require so much Control or Binding as to make them seem ludicrous. So, I decided Summoning should get a rewrite, not because Magic is bad, I still believe that the Mastery of Magic/Sorcery Actions are suitably broken, for their limitations, but Summoning needs something to make it cool, and this is my endeavor.
Summoning (Cost Level = A#+2)
You possess the power to call up various beings, from various planes of existence, and request their aide in various matters. Each rank in the Summoning Action you purchase gives you a pool of 10 Character Creation stones, that you can spend to build a Summon. This is quite similar to the Transform Self, Unlimited Forms Modifier, in that you could have a nearly countless number of assorted demons and angels, and extradimensional beings at your beck and call.
Using the stones of this Action, you write up your various Summons as if they were a character in their on right, which many might be. They an have their own various Actions and Modifiers, and maybe special gear. You can give them more powers by applying Challenges that effect you, rather than them. Say you are playing in the Narutoverse, and you wish to summon up Manda, Dark Lord of Serpents. He could have the Challenge requires sacrifices, or refuse to help you, and maybe even turn on you. In this way, Summoning might still have some of the "do you really want to summon up that" feel it should. Higher ranks in Summoning add more character creation stones you can use, to build progressively more powerful apparitions.
Activating the Summoning Action requires that the summoner spend a number of points of energy into that Action equal to the rank needed to build it. So, a 40 stone Summon requires 4 points of energy from your pool, while a 42 stone one requires 5. Again, here is where Challenges can help you, as you must always round up.
To keep things fair, you do not regain energy as fast while your Summon(s) is/are present. So long as it is there, you only regain 1 stone of energy per Panel.
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Post by Neros on Jan 7, 2009 11:32:16 GMT -5
Well, the biggest problem i have with Summoning, is that a character can be able to perform any other action for merly +2.. Sure there is somekind of cost for using the power, but stonewise, its really, really cheap...
I like the idea that theres and actual limit to what you can create, instead of paying 4 energy to get a Durability 1 Being with a Force Field (1r) at AN 10 (1r) which is a modifier (1r).. But what if you want to summon something you havent summoned before?
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Post by Stark on Jan 7, 2009 17:13:34 GMT -5
I like the action as it is, and I like the fact that the GM can get you in trouble for using it. Sometimes the demons aren't as cooperative as you'd wish they'd be.
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 7, 2009 17:28:52 GMT -5
Exactly. Given that the GM can always simply say "no." to any request you make with the power, its fine as is.
All this added complexity is totally unnecessary.
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Post by Stark on Jan 7, 2009 17:43:50 GMT -5
In other words... this modification goes against WK's KISS rule, lol.
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 7, 2009 17:50:39 GMT -5
Yes, it does.
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Post by Neros on Jan 8, 2009 7:25:21 GMT -5
Hehehe Well, its right.. The GM can charge anything he wants.. But its still "All Powers in the game and more" for +2.. However, what you want to summon usually is flavored by the branch of magic you have.. Someone with Pyromancy is most unlikely to summon a Ice Elemental..
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 8, 2009 8:24:32 GMT -5
Hehehe Well, its right.. The GM can charge anything he wants.. But its still "All Powers in the game and more" for +2.. However, what you want to summon usually is flavored by the branch of magic you have.. Someone with Pyromancy is most unlikely to summon a Ice Elemental.. I don't see it that way at all. The description of summoning never says that you can have any power. It says you can summon a demon with a Durability score up to the stones you put in. If you KNOW a specific demon with, say, Telepathy (or whatever power you're looking for), thats great. You summon up Demon Bob with Telepathy. The problem is that, if you read Summoning A) Bob doesn't HAVE to help you. He can simply say "Don't feel like it" and you have no recourse against him whatsoever. B) Bob is a demon, and can lie to you if he feels like. "Uh, yeah, Doctor Doom hid the doomsday device in Paris. Good luck with that." C) This takes time. Its not like you can just snap your fingers and Bob appears. Even if it did work that way, you'd still have to negotiate with Bob to get what you want. Having "every power" at your disposal isn't that great when you can't use any of them on the fly, which is what you'd want most of them for in the first place... and, most importantly... D) Sorcery allows you to use all but a very small, very select set of powers (Telepathy, Hex Spheres) already, and with much less muss and fuss than Summoning. Summoning is fine as is, unless the GM has no backbone and isn't willing to have demons behave like demons when the player gets too big for his britches.
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Post by Neros on Jan 8, 2009 8:33:42 GMT -5
A, B and D are true, and C is partly true.. Summoning dosent take a panel for some weird reason, but you are right that if you arent already on friendly terms with the demon/being, you will have to negotiate with it.. But Summoning can summon so much more than simple demons.. devils, Celestines, Gnomes, faeries and what not is also possible choices.. Theres also the "Invoke" part of Summoning, which literally allows you to gain the beings powers (or atleast one of them )
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 8, 2009 8:38:57 GMT -5
Invoking is good, but not great.
First, the GM has ultimate control (as it says... the demon may ignore you, take a long time to answer, or answer just to say no)
It DOES have an advantage over just using Sorcery to imbue yourself (stones spent for effect are doubled, which I've never noticed before, and is pretty nice).
STILL... considering all that Sorcery can do, I don't think Summoning is out of line.
Adding new complexity to it certainly isn't the right answer, IMO.
KISS is the golden rule
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Post by Neros on Jan 8, 2009 8:47:07 GMT -5
Thats right.. Who needs any other magical branch when you just need sorcery But you are right that the being which is called usually won't just do what you want it to.. But if you have had good dealings with it, it might go abit faster... And a question...What is KISS? Im guessing its short for something..
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 8, 2009 8:52:46 GMT -5
KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid
The golden rule for game design.
Trust me, I'm not trying to be twinkish about this. I like playing around with different magical styles and my guy in Sorcerer Supreme is a Summoning specialist.
All I'm saying is that I don't see any need to get worked up about what Summoning might let you do, when Sorcery clearly lets you do it anyway, and at the same cost.
I like summoning as-is. Its rules-light and it forces people to role-play in order to get good use out of it.
Arguably, AN +2 may be too cheap for all that it does... but that doesn't require a rules re-write, just a change in the cost.
I get flamed for this all the time, but I personally don't think even Sorcery, powerful as it is, calls for a big cost increase (in my retread I re-priced it at AN+3), simply because magic as a group of actions ends up costing a lot, and most people who want to play magicians will end up taking, at minimum; Mastery of Magic, Magical Travel, Magical Healing & One of the following; Voodoo, Sorcery, Asgardian Sorcery, or Witchcraft.
Plus some of us tend to take Summoning as well...
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Post by venkelos on Jan 8, 2009 9:35:00 GMT -5
I find it amusing that I know people have griped plenty because they think Magic is too overpowered for what you pay, and while I, overall, don't agree with that, Summoning always hurt for me; I don't mind the GM saying "No", and complicated does suck, but the write-up for Summoning makes it not worth taking, ever, and I like the idea of the Action. It just isn't rules-light, it's GM begging. "You know, I wasn't planning on you using the power you paid good points for, especially with the Mastery of Magic you need, too. Unh, but there really isn't a point. I guess various people will use various means. At least I got replies, this time ;D
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Post by WildKnight on Jan 8, 2009 9:39:07 GMT -5
You're fooling yourself. As a player, you're ALWAYS begging the GM.
The GM can make any of your powers not function at any time he wishes. Period. He controls the world.
Players who take a "me vs the GM" mentality are bound to end up frustrated.
Work *with* your GM (or don't play with GMs who see you as their opponent, as unfortunately all too many do), and you'll find them willing to work with you.
I use Summoning a bit, and so far I've had no problems. GMs understand what they're trying to accomplish, and if they stop you from doing something (if they're a good GM), its probably because its a scenario-breaker, not because they delight in torturing you.
Torturing players IS fun though...
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Post by Neros on Jan 8, 2009 10:34:08 GMT -5
Hehe.. Well, you have convinced me
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