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Post by Neros on Feb 6, 2009 17:13:41 GMT -5
Well, I would also really like to get a explanation on how it works because Im not even close to understanding it.. The current system also gives you allot of stones (if you bought a high enough durability ofcourse), and as you burn through it, you will have less to use..
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Post by Dionon on Feb 6, 2009 18:15:07 GMT -5
I gave an example already but....
Let's say you have an Energy Pool rating of 4 (means normally you'd have 12 stones...) Under this system, you would be in the Green level, which means each stone is worth 4 stones for the first 4 panels.... After that you would start to tire, and would move down to Yellow Level in which all stones you had on the table would be worth 3... then Orange (2) and then down to base of Red... The more Energy you had to begin with (IE Higher Energy Pool Rating, or Durability by going on the old system) the longer you can go at full power without stopping.
What this does is make for more dynamic combats by giving the characters the ability to go all out longer. And it will genuinely put fear into the hearts of players if they have to face someone with a high Energy Pool Rating because not only will they not tire for a while, but each stone they put out is magnified.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 6, 2009 18:27:22 GMT -5
Okay, that's not a full enough example for me to understand. I would like to see some stones go into boxes and see what the result is. I'd love to see a couple panels of what this system does. I'm still left guessing. So, let's say Bob has an Energy Pool rating of 4, as you say. He gets 12 green stones in his reserve and I guess recovers 4 green every panel? I'm confused about that. But anyway, that's what I think you're telling us, so I'm rolling with it. Bob has Close Combat let's say 4 with 6 strength. So, his first panel might look like this: Health: x/y Energy: 12/12 Green
Action: 2 green into Close Combat = 8 red stones of attack against [insert target here]
Health: x/y Energy: 10/12 Green
I really hope that I'm getting that totally wrong. ~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 6, 2009 18:32:30 GMT -5
Nope... you're getting that totally right.... He'd have 4 Panels of that... after Panel 4, he would drop to Yellow Level and would look like the following (Assumption... he never went over his regen..)
Panels 5-8
Health: x/y Energy: 12/12 Yellow
Action: 2 yellow into Close Combat = 6 stones of attack.
Panels 9-12
Health: x/y Energy: 12/12 Orange
Action: 2 orange into Close Combat = 4 stones of attack.
Panels 13+
Health: x/y Energy: 12/12 Red
Action: 2 Red into Close Combat = 2 stones of attack.
AN + Bonus still = Maximum, expenditure....
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 6, 2009 18:34:44 GMT -5
Uhm. What happens when you only want to put the equivalent of 2 red into an action, but all you have is Green or Yellow or something?
It's a neat idea, but it's a LOT to remember (you have to keep track of what panel it is, what colour you're on, and so on). And the part I really can't handle is that it reduces the decisions you have to make in a panel to "do I want to put in 1 green or 2?" since you're often dealing with such large units.
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Feb 6, 2009 18:51:57 GMT -5
I understand it abit now.. But to be honest, thats not at all simple.. What i really loved about the current energy system, is its simplicity.. What you are suggestion is... Well, my head hurts when i try to put a scenario together... Really... Or maybe its just my head telling me that Im tired....
Imagen a GM who has 4 NPC's fighting the players.. Instead of just having to deal with red and white stones, he now has to deal with 10 more types of energy stones for 4 different characters.. Not to mention he also should keep an eye on the players... So, to put it short, theres just to many "invisible" stones to my tast..
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Post by Dionon on Feb 6, 2009 19:11:37 GMT -5
Maybe you guys are right.... but the idea is novel... and maybe with work it'll produce something viable....
We all agree that we need either A) More stones, or B) More ways to make stone use not CRAP.
My way was just saying "Ok, you have the same stones, but they're worth more..."
Maybe there's a better way....
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Post by Dionon on Feb 6, 2009 19:13:59 GMT -5
NEW IDEA!!!!!!!!
In my upcoming expansion for MURPG representing the FF universe, I change how health works... what if we did something like it for this...
We have the three Energy/Health stats...
Health Energy Pool Energy Rengen
What IF instead of having Energy Pool x 3 energy, you have Energy Pool x Full Health energy.
So say you had 4 health, and 3 Energy Pool... You'd have 12 Energy. If you had 4 Energy Pool you'd have 16 energy... Get what I'm saying?
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Post by soban on Feb 6, 2009 21:14:43 GMT -5
Yes, I like it. However, I'd like to play test it.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 7, 2009 1:29:11 GMT -5
I get what you're saying, but I'm wondering why. What are you trying to fix exactly?
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 7, 2009 1:37:25 GMT -5
I'm trying to fix the energy regeneration problem without going into Modifiers or advantages... I'd really like to avoid Energy Regeneration modifers and advantages in the new system as much as possible, as they always get broken...
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Post by Neros on Feb 7, 2009 5:24:40 GMT -5
Well arent we making a new system to "unbroken" them?
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Post by Dionon on Feb 7, 2009 9:18:14 GMT -5
Right, and this is part of what I'm proposing. How we handle the generation of energy....
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Post by vjcsmoke on Feb 7, 2009 11:27:29 GMT -5
I don't like basing energy pool on health, because I'd like to separate health from the energy equation. My example of Cyclops is what I'm talking about. There are a lot of Xmen with max human health whose CADs suffer from energy problems because of the 1.0 Durability rule. Multiplying energy pool by health exarcerbates this problem because anybody else with higher than 3 health automatically gains a huge advantage over them.
I also don't like different colored energy as it goes away from KISS rule.
I think I might like an Overdrive or something similar to 'All out attack' close combat option equivalent except it works for energy.
Overdrive. A character may declare "Overdrive" to double their normal energy generation for the panel. IN the following panel, their energy generation is halved from normal. Characters may not declare Overdrive in consecutive panels.
As for cost, I think overdrive should either be a +1 option or free for every character.
Here are the possiblities of cost levels: Overdrive +1 CL 1.5x energy +1 CL 2x energy +2 CL
Note: In this case people would have to decide whether they get 1.5x energy PLUS the ability to use overdrive or just get 2x energy.
OR
Overdrive FREE 1.5x energy +1 CL 2x energy +2 CL
OR
Overdrive +1 CL 1.5x energy +2 CL 2x energy +3 CL
OR
Overdrive +1 CL or FREE 1.5x energy +3W 2x energy +6W
Note: Flat cost advantages are easy to compute and understand, but might be considered undercosted when paired with high energy regeneration rates.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 7, 2009 11:59:46 GMT -5
Dio: I just don't see the need to base energy pool on max health. The amount of energy you need in your pool is much more closely related to your recovery rate. If someone tried to represent an Int-based character who had maybe 2 stones of health but a recovery of 6, their energy pool would also be 6. That would suck for them. I'd prefer to stick with Pool = Recovery x 5.
vjcsmoke, I think consensus is already against any multiples of energy recovery rates. So far we're allowing players to simply choose their energy recovery at a very low price, and if you also offer them the opportunity to DOUBLE that, they're going to take it, every time. Then everyone turns out the same. It creates more problems than it solves (I can't actually imagine what problem it solves).
The overdrive is a neat idea, but again, every player is going to have it, and they're going to use it every other panel, always. There is no reason not to. I'm generally opposed to that sort of thing.
~TWF
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