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Post by Dionon on Feb 5, 2009 19:08:49 GMT -5
Rules:
Powers fall into Teirs (I chose one of the examples I gave for alternates)
Epsilon-Delta: The action Personalized Action ONLY - 0 Stones/Rank Delta: Actions and Modifiers CL 0-1 - 1 stones/Rank Gamma: Actions and Modifiers CL 2-3 - 3 stones/Rank Beta: Actions and Modifiers CL 4-5 - 7 stones/Rank Alpha: Actions and Modifiers CL 6-7 - 11 stones/Rank Omega: Actions and Modifiers 9+ - 16 stones/Rank
Advantages and Disadvantages: Add up the total CL and compare to the Tier chart... pay that rank's stones.
Masteries.... Same as Advantages and Disadvantages.
Powers without CL: Convert the White Stones into a AN, and subtract 1, that'll be the CL to compare to the chart above.
Abilities are Delta Rank
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 5, 2009 19:58:44 GMT -5
Let me see if I have this straight. Let's say I'm building a Force Blast. I want:
Force Blast 6 - element: microwave beams - armor penetration
It starts out as AN +1CL (delta level). I want it to be uhmm... microwave element, so I'm thinking Armor Penetration. Assuming it's still +3 CL I'm looking at +4 CL total, is that right? If so, it's Beta level and I pay 7 stones per rank. For 6 ranks, that's 42 Blue. Right?
Is that right so far?
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 5, 2009 20:09:22 GMT -5
Force Blast is +0 CL to begin with, so adding Armor Pen +3 would push it to Gamma Level or +3 per.... Now, if the Force Blast began as a Fire Blast, and the Microwave Portion was added, then yes, it would be Beta Level
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 5, 2009 20:35:31 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, you're right, sorry. But other than that, I did it right?
Okay, because I still have a problem with one aspect of this system. I've tried to illustrate it once already, but I don't think you really got what I was saying.
Currently, my Force Blast looks like this:
Force Blast 6 (element: microwave beam) - armor penetration +3 CL - efficient +1 CL
It's a Gamma-level power, so it costs only 3 stones per rank. So it only costs me 18 Blue.
For argument's sake, I decide I also want to make my Force Blast efficient. So, now it looks like this:
Force Blast 6 (element: microwave beam) - armor penetration +3 CL - efficient +1 CL
NOW, thanks to the Efficient advantage, it's jumped from a Gamma to a Beta. Now it costs 7 blue per, for a total cost of 42 blue.
But what if now I also decide to add in a stun option for +1 CL. Now it looks like this:
Force Blast 6 (element: microwave beam) - armor penetration +3 CL - efficient +1 CL - stun option +1 CL
This is the strange part. It's still a Beta-level power, and so it still costs 42 blue.
Adding the first +1 CL option cost me an extra 24 Blue. (That's a 133% increase, by the way.) Adding the second +1 CL option was free.
That's kinda clunky, no?
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 5, 2009 20:54:23 GMT -5
Yes... yes it is mildly clunky... The bad part is... I actually managed to make Juggernaut, straight from the X-Men book with this....
I'm seriously rethinking this system... Maybe the CL system isn't so bad after all... My original goal was to get away from what I thought were problems... but this thread... in the 3 posts... debunked it...
Ok, you guys win... I acquiesce
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 5, 2009 21:04:19 GMT -5
I haven't really given up on it. I think there might still be something to this, we just have to find the right paradigm shift. The problems I've found are mostly due to leftovers from the old system: advantages as Cost Levels, for example.
What if Cost Levels just cost more stones, rather than bumping up tiers? I guess that would cause problems too. Hmm.
Force Blast 6 (action number) + 0 (base cost) + 3 (armor penetration) + 1 (stun option) = 10 CL Assuming it's a Delta, that's only 10 stones. Hmm. AN 10 would only be 14 stones. Yeah, that's a problem.
Yargh. Well, I'm still going to meditate on this more and see what falls out of my brain. I do my best thinking in my sleep (I once did the math on an entire 40 stone CAD in my sleep - correctly).
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 5, 2009 21:14:18 GMT -5
lol, I'll keep working at it too... If you, my most ardent detractor on this, can theorize a way to make it work... then there MUST be hope..
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 5, 2009 21:15:44 GMT -5
Ha ha, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate. I love that there are all these new ideas. I'm already putting together a test game.
~TWF
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Post by vjcsmoke on Feb 7, 2009 11:57:27 GMT -5
Just looking at the numbers your pricing on the tiers are off.
E 0 stones per rank. Nothing should cost 0 stones per rank. Difference +1 D 1 stones per rank Difference +2 G 3 stones per rank D +4 B 7 stones per rank D +4 A 11 stones per rank D +5 O 16 stones per rank
Between G and B abilities should be a +3 stone per rank difference, not a +4. And nothing even an Epsilon ability should cost 0 stones per rank. 100 ranks of a weak ability is still a godlike ability, and anyone can get it for free? Doesn't make sense. Just lump Epsilon and Delta together, they should both cost 1 stone per rank.
As I said before, the structure of this pricing system just doesn't scale well, but if you're insistent on going with it at least fix those two issues first.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 7, 2009 13:28:24 GMT -5
Whoops! You're right! I know that didn't look right... It should read 0,1,3,6,10,15 lol...
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Post by vjcsmoke on Feb 7, 2009 17:51:49 GMT -5
I'm assuming by epsilon ranked ability you mean an ability that is considered 'not very useful'. I think it would be ok to cost them at .5 stone per rank then. For example, even though a cooking skill of 5 or a video game skill of 6 is 'not very useful', it can be used to impress others so it should have some cost to it.
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Post by bubuniu on Feb 7, 2009 18:12:06 GMT -5
Never allow cost to be something else than full point/stone/whatever because if one rank cost 0.5 then many players will buy 2/4/6/etc. ranks.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 7, 2009 19:01:19 GMT -5
I can see your point vjc, but bubu is right... it's either 1 point per, or just take the damn thing lol.
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Post by vjcsmoke on Feb 7, 2009 20:14:58 GMT -5
Never allow cost to be something else than full point/stone/whatever because if one rank cost 0.5 then many players will buy 2/4/6/etc. ranks. That's making the assumption that they don't take another 'not very useful' skill. Who says they won't take Cooking 3 and Video Games 3? If we're going to eliminate 1/3, I don't see why not go with .5 stones as the new partial increment. Halves are a lot easier to add up. And making them pay .5 stone per rank of nonuseful skill is a lot better than giving it to them for free. Besides does it really feel right to charge someone the same for 5 ranks of bikini waxing as 5 ranks of acrobatics?
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Post by Dionon on Feb 7, 2009 20:55:45 GMT -5
*blinks* which is why Bikini waxing would be free.... No one is going to rely on their "Super Bikini Waxing Powers" to save the day, so why even bother.....
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