Steal Superpower

[soban]

Steal Superpower
Why: Two words: instant knockout. There are actually a host of reasons this action is a bad idea for PCs to possess, but the instant knockout is the real game killing aspect (well said, WK)

Ok, I was thinking about it and I thought of a way to rewrite Steal Superpower that was perhaps not as insanely broken. The Main problem with the description is that it uses minutes and panels Here is my rewrite.


Steal Superpower

Steal Superpower allows you to steal someone else's superpower and use it as well. When you overcome a targets defense you put tones into steal superpwer and you have their power at AN=Number of red stones that you put in for a number of panels equal to number of stones put in. For the time that you have it it replaces steal superpower.

+1 Also Stun for a Panel per stone of effort
+3 Can Permanently take powers. (needs more stuff added here)
+2 Steal from range(Stones to overcome defense damage is power taken

[Jet]

Still not there.

"you have their power at AN=Number of red stones that you put in for a number of panels equal to number of stones put in"

So, if I put 1 stone, I can only get Force Blast at AN 1? Preposterous! That shifts the power scale from "broken" to "FAIL". I always thought the point of "COPYING" is to get the power "AS STRONG AS" instead of "similiar". Plus, how will you rule powers that arent actions, like toughness or super strenght?

"+1 Also Stun for a Panel per stone of effort"

Also not good and still gives you instant KO for little cost (+1 is only +1). Why not just let it deal stun damage instead? After all, being touched doesnt ALWAYS KO the opponent, as I saw many enemies just shrug of Rogue after she touched them.

"+3 Can Permanently take powers. (needs more stuff added here)"

Depends on the general cost of the Steal Superpower itself. Still, this kinda stuff should be used with GM discretion. Rogue managed to steal Ms Marvel's power for years by just being in contact long enough. Does that mean she has this option or is it just a normal usage of the power itself?

"+2 Steal from range(Stones to overcome defense damage is power taken"

No no no no no! Copying without skin contact is "Copy Power" gig, not this one. And that requires a different thread.

[Dionon]

How bout.... we go with Soban's idea, make it have an AN, but to steal a superpower you have to spend stones into SS's action box equal to the Action's AN

Example.... Rogue has Steal Superpower Rank 8 (for this example), she puts all 8 stones into stealing Colossus' powers. Because she beats his ANs and MNs she gets all his powers, except his Strength, which she honestly matches with her own.

If she instead was going after Cyclops' Eye Beams, she wouldn't be able to grab it, unless she got some sort of situational bonus.

As for cost, If we were going by the old system... I'd say AN+5
In my System, I'd say Alpha Level power.

[Neros]

Well, the only problem with it, how will Rouge steal a superpower when she is knocked out/Sleeping/Tired? Well, she can't since she is knocked out/Sleeping/Tired... And as far as i know, her powers are always on..

As i see it, this power should be a modifier.. How about you can only steal a number of powers equal to your MN? So if you for example had Steal Superpower at 4 you could steal 4 powers.. So if someone had Force Blast, Flight, super Strength, Durability and Toughness you could choose 4 of them..

I don't think we should throw any Cost Level on any of the powers, until we know how we wan't it to work.. so lets start watching/reading some Rouge episodes/bio's...

[Dionon]

So Rogue mitigated the cost of her powers by taking the disadvantage "Uncontrollable"

So it went, for her, from a +5 down to a +1, and she bought it at a 10 AN... that way, she never had to worry about what she could steal, but she had to worry about the touch thing.

[WildKnight]

Sorry, but TWF had it head on, an all the people complaining about not being able to steal powers at maximum result every time are, no offense, being whiny power gamers.

I don't care what Rogue can do in the comics. If the action isn't balanced, it will NEVER be useful in a game, period. Allowing people to instantly steal all of a target's powers just because their AN of Steal Superpower exceeds the targets AN or MN is not the same as creating a defense against this power... its just creating an effective limit. Since Steal Superpower is an action and therefore (relatively) cheap to improve, the character will ultimately get to AN 10, and be able to steal any power regardless of who they're taking it from, thus reducing the target to utter uselessness without any hope of defense. Might sound cool... but its game wrecking.

[Deleted]

As an action, this power woudln't work. I agree this is game wrecking. It's where the player has totally lost site of the fact that roleplay is about storyline, and having a challenge, and simply wants a character that can crush everyone else. Though, I've thought about the cost for the modifiers for a while now. Mainly because of Sylar, and Peter Petrelli

first off, copying a super power is clearly a 30 stone modifier. Both examples in the book make it clear that stealing a super power is a modifier, and not meant to be an action. Also, both examples are the same modifier with different options.

Also, copying perminantly is +5 cost levels. To supress perminantly is +5 cost levels, and it only makes good common sense that the complete opposite cost the same.

Now, in Heroes, Sylar would have a power, and probably a action in order to do what he does. Frist he would have a copy super power.

-1 cost level for not copying intelegence
-1 cost level for not copying actions

Now, we've seen Sylar "fix" powers he's stolen. I've always beleived that he has an action like techknlowgy that allows him to get rid of some of the disadvantages a power has. He'd probably spend time, and stones from his energy reserve kind of like the way you'd do with inventing to create something. In this case you'd be getting rid of disandvantages. Maybe, it could be priced as an option to techknloogy. After all, he was a watch repairman back in the day

[vjcsmoke]

Feb 7, 2009 12:16:30 GMT -5 WildKnight said:

Sorry, but TWF had it head on, an all the people complaining about not being able to steal powers at maximum result every time are, no offense, being whiny power gamers.

Did a power gamer run over your dog? Seriously, let's try to talk about the rules without throwing out broad insults at everyone who disagrees with you, WK. That's just a bit snarky. Let's instead try to discuss the rules logically and calmly. Disagreements are sure to come up, but lets keep the discussion focused on the rules, shall we?

I think that for Steal Superpower to work, the person needs to either touch their target or somehow overcome their target's defense. Toughness doesn't make sense for avoidance, so now we're talking about that person's reflexive dodge. As proposed previously, reflexive dodge would be a combination of speed+agility/2. BUT you can combine an action to shift stones to defense on top of your reflexive dodge. So defense vs Steal Superpower = Reflexive Dodge + Defensive Action.

Therefore here's how it should work. Steal Superpower is an action with an AN. It also gets the free option, combines with close combat. So you combine your Steal Superpower action with your close combat to attempt to touch your target and steal their superpower.

When the touch is successful, you check the AN of Steal Superpower and the AN of any super powers that the target has. If your SS AN is equal to or higher, you gain the super powers the target has that meets the requirement. Likewise your target is deprived of those superpowers for that same amount of time that you have them.

Duration of theft should probably be calculated based on two factors: A) How long the SS character is in contact with the target and B) The AN of SS itself. As for the specifics of how long, I'll let someone else debate that.

[Dionon]

Hmmm... interesting, but needs a little work...

For duration... how bout Panels of "Damage"

Like if Rogue had an AN of 7, and a CC of 4, and beat Cyclops' defense total by 4, she'd have the powers for 4 panels if she just touched him for a panel. a Duration of 4 if she grabbed him for 2 panels, and for longer than 5 minutes of contact would transfer them permenantly...

Permenant removal of powers should not be permenant however.... Carol Danvers eventually got her powers back, she had to give it a couple tries, but she did... BUT Rogue kept the powers... SO how bout instead of Permenant Transfer... it's a Permenant Copy, and the subject is denied their powers and is in a coma for a Duration of the user's action number (IE if Rogue had a 7, it would be several months I believe... Which was what happened to Carol) After the coma wears off, the victim is subject to give the Modifier Power in Flux equal to her what her superhuman powers were worth, and the GM can assign powers based on them...


Just an idea...

[Kaimontfendo]

For a while now, I've imagined a form of Steal Superpower that has an Action Number, and that allows you to duplicate powers at the target's original AN or your Steal Superpower AN, whichever is lower. (Actually, that might work for CopyA/A/M, too.) So for example, Captain Clone has Steal Superpower at an AN of 6. So when he's stupid enough to touch Hulk, he gets Strength and Toughness each at 6, as well as an Accelerated Healing Factor.

In retrospect, that's probably not a very good example. Maybe up to double your AN would work better... Perhaps instead of using raw AN it should take into account the cost of the abilities you're trying to copy. (So that people don't touch Silver Surfer and run around with Power Cosmic at AN 2 for a few minutes.)

The 1-hit KO does make it powerful, but since it's a power that leaves people in comas and stuff, I think that needs to stay, at least in some way, if only so that rules match the comics.

Another Idea! Attack vs. Durability. For each successful stone of damage, you get the target's powers for a certain duration (a minute or something). If the target's Durability meets or exceeds your MN, then they are unaffected by it.

Sure my ideas aren't perfect. Maybe one of you will be able to improve upon one of them. Maybe not, I dunno. Either way, I'm sharing them with you hoping that you can adjust them to work better.

[Thuellai]

Here's an idea - Give it an AN. The AN is the CL of powers you can control - so an AN of 2 lets you take Flight and control whatever Flight you get, but if you grab someone with a CL+3 power (including options), it's out of control - it's just not something you've got the skill to handle.

[vjcsmoke]

I don't like the idea of a KO unless its a permanent transfer/copy. Stun for the initial successful touch would be enough imo.

Panel 1. Successful touch. 1 round stun. Transfer = Minutes x SS AN.
Panel 2. Second touch. 2 rounds stun. Transfer = Hours x SS AN.
Panel 3. Third touch. KO. Transfer = Permanent. Knockout time = SS AN x weeks.

Basically it should be a deliberate decision for the character to permanently steal super powers. They would have to decide to continually touch for 3 straight panels. The target would be stunned a total of 3 panels if they were touched for 2 panels in a row. This needs some discussion but this could work as a rough framework.

[Neros]

Theres also the question about the copied personalities... How long do they stay? I havent read that much about Rouge, but don't the personalities stay for awhile even though the powers are gone? By the way, thats the only thing it does to normal people.. Knock them out and copy their memories and personalities... And letting it KO someone is rather importants since we are trying to follow the comics.. Buts its not worse than creating a costly option which Rouge then has..

I don't think it should combine with Close Combat.. I can't imagen how it would help you steal a power.. Touch someone, yes...
Also, if you really want steal Steal Super Power to be a Action, which i am against since Rouge dosn't seem to get tired when she touches people, we could make it a Free Action (check the Advantage thread).. But then again, she could have bought her power as a modifier..

[soban]

I'd think that Rouge took the personality thing as a disadvantage.

[WildKnight]

Feb 7, 2009 20:32:50 GMT -5 vjcsmoke said:

Did a power gamer run over your dog?

No... they've just ruined hundreds of hours of work of my own... thousands (possibly millions) of hours of work on behalf of others, with their selfish behavior.