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Post by takewithfood on Feb 9, 2009 22:05:14 GMT -5
Okay, I figured that's what you meant by stamina. I just don't see how Stamina is of any advantage at all. It's never come up in any game I've ever seen.
I completely disagree with you about characters with 2 health getting as much mileage out of a HF as a higher health character. It's my entire friggin' point. lol Please read my posts.
A 2 health character loses 1 white; he's now down to HALF OF HIS HP. Healing that asap is incredibly important.
A 7 health character loses 1 white. He's going to be fine. He's not in any immediate danger of being knocked out or killed. Yes, it would be super to heal that 1 white up, but not MORE so than the 2 white character.
Do you agree with at least those two statements? (By the way, I've said this about 3 times already, so please don't tell me that I haven't addressed it.)
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 22:13:31 GMT -5
I disagree with both statements by countering with the following...
The 2 Health guy gets hit with 7 stones... Now... according to a little passage in the Avengers book... the GM could rule him vaporized... no Unconcious... nothing... His healing factor does nothing for him now...
The 7 Health guy gets hit for 7 stones.... That freakin hurt! 3 white stones of damage... Thank god he's got an X:2 Y1 (Old Accelerated) If he can just play his cards right, he'll make it out of this fight with his life, and, if he can stall long enough, maybe even win..
That's what I mean by mileage. Two characters getting hit with the same attack. One instantly dies, the other is severely wounded, but might life if he plays his cards right.
Yes, I know it doesn't seem fair, but it's the truth. It might be hard to hear... but I'm right. The fact that I gave the H2 charactrer an X3 and a Y2 doesn't mean a damn thing, even though he paid less for it than the H7, X2, Y1 character that lived. The H7 character got alot more mileage out of his, because, even though he would only heal 1w/2panels, he might live.
While the 2h guy that had the Instant Healing Factor is dead... totally.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 9, 2009 22:18:36 GMT -5
Psst, it would take more than 8 stones to vaporize a health 2 character.
7 stones of damage = 2W, 1R, leaving the character with 1R health stone.
The Avengers book says that the damage has to be MORE THAN his maximum possible damage, ergo it would take 9+ stones.
And actually, TWF is right, and your own arguments are helping his point, not yours.
The guy with Dur 2 only paid for Dur 2. The guy with Dur 6 paid for Dur 6. In other words, he's already paid for the advantage of having more Durability than the guy with Dur 2, and everything else is a function of the Healing Factor, not the Durability score.
Dur 2 guy and Dur 6 guy are going to heal the same amount of damage over the same amount of time. Dur 6 guy just has a longer way to go to be at full health (and as stated; he's already paid more for the opportunity to have more health)
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 22:20:17 GMT -5
pssst... a Health 2 character only has 6 red stones of health....
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 9, 2009 22:21:51 GMT -5
Since when? Via the book you have 2r health stones when all of your White ones are gone. Did we do away with that somewhere?
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 22:22:53 GMT -5
And no, if you go by my system... You pay for Health and Healing at the same time... with the same number using the same cost... not like 1.0 where you go "Ok... I just paid 12w for my 6 Dur, and now I'm going to pay 15 more for my Accelerated Healing Factor"
You go... Ok... I have 6 health, with an X of 2 and a Y of 1 (the old accelerated). Great... I pay 12 stones (same price as OLD 6 Durability) and now I have 6 health and an Accelerated Healing Factor.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 22:23:53 GMT -5
Since when? Via the book you have 2r health stones when all of your White ones are gone. Did we do away with that somewhere? Dude... 2x3 = 6..... If I do 7 damage... I'm doing more than you're maximum health..... where did I go wrong? |
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 9, 2009 22:33:23 GMT -5
This is just an illustration of the advantages of having more health. The 2 Health character is unconscious because he didn't buy enough health. That's why more health costs more.
To charge them differently for the same healing rate is overkill. As WK said, you're just proving my point.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 9, 2009 22:34:03 GMT -5
You went wrong via the fact that your health is 2w and 2r, not just 2w.
No matter what your Durability score, you have an additional 2r stones of health tagged on at the end (by the RAW, thats when you know you're in real trouble... because you don't get to regenerate any energy stones at all).
Therefore, in your scenario... you'd burn up 6 stones doing the 2W stones of health, and your 7th stone damaging the first red stone, leaving one red stone remaining.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 22:42:48 GMT -5
*blinks* What? WK you kinda lost me here... I've never, and have never to my knowledge gone by that rule... (Granted I've never gone by the vaporization rule... it was just an illustration)
and to TWF... No... the example I was giving you was supposed to be about the poor 2 health guy with the instant healing factor getting 1shotted.... I've never heard about what WK's talking about till now.... 7 stones of damage is still 7 stones of damage...
Either way, up it to 9 stones and you have the same result.... The guy with 2 health is still getting less from his healing factor because he's easier to kill.. thus telling me that he shouldn't pay that much for his healing factor while the one with the higher health is living much longer telling me that allowing him to pay 1,3,5, or 7 stones for a flat healing factor is just begging for abuse.
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Post by soban on Feb 9, 2009 22:50:49 GMT -5
*blinks at long convoluted argument*
It seems to me like regenerating 1 stone per panel is regenerating 1 stone per panel not matter who you are.
Getting a stone a panel back seems like it would be worth about 9 white stones or 27 blue stones take your pick. Every one after that seems like it would be worth about 3 white or 9 blue more. Seems fair to me.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 9, 2009 22:51:21 GMT -5
LOL well, I assure you... according to the rules, you have 2 additional red health stones once all your white ones are gone. Look it up.
As far as your argument about the guy with 2 Dur being taken out quicker... nobody is disagreeing with you there. The point is that the 2 Dur guy PAID LESS for his 2 Dur than the 6 Dur guy paid for his. The cost improvement for being harder to take out is already built in.
Are we going to start charging more for everything that will have greater effect due to your ability to stay in the fight longer? For instance... Dur 2 guy could have Close Combat 10, but if he gets hit for all his health, he won't get a chance to use it more than once (maybe not even that). Dur 6 guy can get hit 3 times as much before he has to stop Close Combating... so he should pay more for Close Combat, right?
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 9, 2009 22:52:15 GMT -5
But you keep ignoring the fact that the 2 health guy has already paid a LOT less for his HP than the 7 health guy. All you keep demonstrating is that 2 health is worse than 7 health.
Let's suppose these characters are COMPLETELY identical. They have the exact same stats. Str 5, Telepathy 8, Flight 4, and let's say Reflexive Dodge 3. Whatever, I just made that up. The only difference is that Bob has Health 2 and Jane has Health 7. They both have some sort of healing factor.
Your argument is that because Bob is more easily 1 shotted, he isn't getting as much use out of his Healing Factor so he shouldn't have to pay as much. But Is he getting as much out of his Telepathy? Is he getting as much out of his Strength? Or any other feature that is IDENTICAL to Jane's? No.
Why? Because his health sucks. Because his health sucks, he's a crappier character. He'll spend more time unconscious, and less time being strong, being telepathic, and healing. It's all the same.
We don't charge less for any other aspect of his CAD that is IDENTICAL to Jane's. Healing Factor is no different.
~TWF
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 9, 2009 22:53:27 GMT -5
About the 2 red thing, WK is mostly right. This is what happens. I don't have the book with me, but it says somewhere that when you lose your last stone, it's replaced by 2 red.
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 22:56:18 GMT -5
Don't you guys realize... I'm not charging more for anything... I'm charging the same CL costs... it's just costing more because of the crappy rules say the higher in CL you get, the more you pay...
Now that I've argued this to death, it serves my ulterior motive of hyping my Power Class, straight points per rank system....
Because if we did it that way, they would both cost the exact same thing to add to your Health.
I'm sneaky like that....
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