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Post by takewithfood on Feb 9, 2009 15:42:25 GMT -5
Hey gang,
So, here's the thing. Prescience is a neat power and I like the mechanic of being able to assign your stones after all other stones are revealed. HOWEVER, this kinda sucks for online play. It's cumbersome for the GM to relate all stones on the field to player with Prescience (while hiding them from players without Prescience) and any shortcut solution tends to dilute the power's effectiveness.
So, let's come up with an alternate set of rules that can be used online. Here's my idea:
This makes more sense to me for characters such as Spider Man. The price is slightly discounted as it isn't quite as powerful as the "normal" version. This way, GMs don't have to reveal all stones, they only have to say "You sense you're about to be shot by a sniper on the rooftop above and behind you." and let the player allocate as usual.
Thoughts?
~TWF
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Post by bubuniu on Feb 9, 2009 16:33:45 GMT -5
What i think is that... great! Now it's only inform you about danger and possible resultat of it but it's still allows to hurt you like many enemies did to Spider-Man. The fact you know about upcoming danger does not mean you have really higher chances to avoid it than in "normal" situation.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 16:40:18 GMT -5
I dunno TWF... That version is a little blaze(add the little tilda thingie...) because for one thing, Reflexive Dodge applies to everything unless it's either really cramped quarters, or it's an area effect..
How bout the following... Instead of the cumbersome way it's been handled, handle it on the fly...
Like the following
Panel 1 H: Spiderman is fighting Venom and makes a 5 stone attack attempt
Panel 1 V: Venom attacks Spiderman with 8 stones.. that's gonna hurt.
Panel 2 H: Instead of taking the damage, Spiderman, as the first line of his posts describes how he dodged out of the way just in time by, instead of punching Venom, using Venom's head as a spring board and shifting his Attack stones into Defense..
Panel 2 H cont: Spiderman goes along his panel normally..... as does venom later.
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Post by de5pa1r on Feb 9, 2009 17:02:46 GMT -5
Either that or we could revamp the way panels are taken. My friends and I have always modified the system so that it's completely turn-based. That being said, initiative always goes to the person with Prescience and if they are attacked after their turn, they may put stones into defense. But that's an entirely new, larger can of worms.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 17:03:52 GMT -5
That doesn't function well online saddly...
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 9, 2009 17:05:34 GMT -5
Dio, you'd let someone apply reflexive dodge to an attack they can't even see coming? I know it suggests as much on page 82 (under "Unopposed Attacks") but that doesn't make much sense to me. To me, reflex is automatic, but requires stimulus to respond to. How can you reflexively dodge something you can't sense?
At any rate, you make a good case for making corrections as part of your next panel's posts. That's not a bad way of doing it, but it's still a little awkward in a group. Players need to know what actually happened during the last page in order to know how they should/can react. Is Spidey dead or alive? Does he need healing or not? Is the opponent he punched actually KO or is he still unhurt?
Argh, I hate prescience. lol
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Feb 9, 2009 17:06:51 GMT -5
TwF: As far as i know, Relfexive Dodge always applies (except against Area Effect).. A thing I love about the House Ruled version of Prescience is that it can have different degrees of Prescience, so no one has the same prescience.. But can you come with an example how your version works? Dionon: Hmm.. Not the best characters to use as and example, since Comic Wise, Spiderman cannot detect venom with his prescience  I've never played a game online where i was a GM with a player that had Prescience, so I its limited how much experience I've had with it.. Why not just have a "Prescience Panel" when handling games online? The GM posts whats happening, and before there comes any real outcome, someone with Prescience can decide what he wants to act upon.. Or what about sending a PM to the player and let him know that theres something dangerous happening and he might want to get out of the way (spiderman usually dosen't know whats dangerous, only how dangerous and where its coming from) |
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 17:11:18 GMT -5
Yeah yeah, not the best examples (even though Venom's CAD severely screws that up...) It's not really clunky if you allow the player to assign his own damage. This requires a great deal of trust, but if say Spiderman takes the hit, he's not going to lie about it.
So, if say the same fight...
Spidey takes the hit.. On his next panel he writes something to the effect of.
"Though dodging would have been a good thing, Spiderman decides that he needs to knock Eddie out instead, and takes the full brunt of the punch.... 2w damage...Ouch."
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 9, 2009 17:51:35 GMT -5
TwF: As far as i know, Relfexive Dodge always applies (except against Area Effect).. Yes, I acknowledged that this is what the rules state.. however, that makes no sense to me. lol I guess I'm alone on that front. By RAW, everyone with reflexive dodge is prescient to some degree. They somehow know when they're about to be hit no matter what. I can name scenarios in which that reflexive dodge shouldn't apply: 1. Imagine a sniper sitting on a hilltop a half mile from a character with Reflexive Dodge 5. Said character is facing in the opposite direction. The sniper shoots! The bullet travels faster than the speed of sound, yet somehow the character dodges? 2. A character with Reflexive Dodge is in a fight with an invisible character. They have no abnormal senses such as super hearing. They reflexively dodge punches they can't see coming? 3. A character is fast asleep in bed. Someone with high Thieving sneaks into his room and stabs him in the face with a knife (wow, I'm violent!). He somehow wakes up and dodges out of the way? I think it's rare, but in some situations there's no way Reflexive Dodge is enough to save your butt. Denying Ref. Dodge in these situations makes sense to me - as much sense as denying it in the event of an area attack. Anything less is confusing it with prescience. Prescience is what should save people in these situations - situations where they aren't even lucky enough to be surprised, they're just hit without any warning. I think that's what separates someone like Spider Man and someone who has dynamite reflexes. Because this effectively doubles the number of pages in a fight, and fights already take forever - especially online. All Prescience should do is alert you to attacks that you might otherwise not notice. It shouldn't help you against attacks you already see coming - that's what Ref. dodge should do. That would also be a ton of PMs. One for every panel of every fight, for that character's whole career. Eek. ~TWF |
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 17:53:04 GMT -5
Actually TWF... all those examples have happened.... And I think it was Nick Fury who dodged the knife....
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 9, 2009 17:54:32 GMT -5
I'm just going to say this;
Prescience Sucks, and I don't think its possible to fix it. Its a terrible rule thats actually wholly unnecessary. Even people who display this ability in the comics still get hit all the time.
Reflexive Dodge could be described as "Prescience"
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 9, 2009 17:56:53 GMT -5
Actually TWF... all those examples have happened.... And I think it was Nick Fury who dodged the knife.... Did he dodge it because he became aware of the attack, or did he dodge it because his body just reacts to information it doesn't have? Argh. Please at least tell me you agree that that's stupid. lol ~TWF |
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Post by Neros on Feb 9, 2009 17:57:04 GMT -5
Well, I guess its to balance it with Toughness.. Only thing that ignores toughness is Touch attacks and the only thing that ignores Reflexive Dodge is Area attacks (and the hard ground when falling).. If those things applied aswell, there would be more things which would ignore reflexive dodge... Telekinesis among some of them since its an invisible force.. As i said, never had any experience with GM'in online with characters that have Prescience |
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Post by soban on Feb 9, 2009 18:05:34 GMT -5
I suggest that we fold prescience into reflexive doge and be done with it.
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Post by Dionon on Feb 9, 2009 18:08:19 GMT -5
I suggest that we fold prescience into reflexive doge and be done with it. Agreed, this debate is pointless, when we ALL agree that Prescience as written and intended is broken and useless at the same time.... Besides... the new Reflexive Dodge rules make Spiderman have what... a 6 Reflexive Dodge? That's pretty damn good. |
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