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Post by Dionon on Feb 19, 2009 0:30:30 GMT -5
Ok, I've been avoiding weighing in on this like the plague, but...
Firstly, Welcome Prophet, It's nice to see a new face.
Now, onto the meat and potatoes of your first post (which is ALL I'm going to comment on tbh)
While I appreciate what you're trying to do, make us rethink our Experience system by siting the fact that each AN represents an exponential increase, it has become increasingly clear that the old system, while flawed, remains the system with the least flaws to it when it comes to both Ease of use and Ease of implication.
Certain other forms have been suggested, such as the Slight Increase form of "AN+10 LoE" but that doesn't take into account the actual power of the Action in question.
It's all a matter of balancing Acquisition of Experience vs Use of Experience. The way the system is now, and the way most want it to remain, you never see an increase in Experience Acquisition, thus there is never an increase in the cost of Experience Use (thus eliminating your DnD argument, which was valid, but flawed)
The reason for this, is the fact that MURPG runs on a "What did you Learn here" system. Once the issue is over, your LoE are supposed to be used to express the main things you learned in this issue. If you fought the Blob, flew through fire rings and were forced to choose between the red and blue wire. You have to express them in Lines, but if the GM only gives you 2 LoE this issue because you didn't participate as much as he'd like, or you were out of character alot, you've got to decide which 2 of those 3 experiences was a learning experience.
And honestly, it would be a shame to get RID of LoE... they're a record of what we've done, and where we've been... moreso then Experience Points could ever be.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 8:03:08 GMT -5
That's odd, because Wolverine isn't a particularly good fighter. Despite having superhuman regenerative abilities, toughness, agility, speed, strength and unbreakable bones, he regularly gets his ass kicked by human martial artists who have none of his advantages. ... Okay, so here's the thing. You do in fact have a great point. In recent years, Wolverine has been getting beaten down more and more often. HOWEVER... it is also true that within the canon, its been explained that Wolverine is one of the top hand-to-hand fighters in the entire world, due to a combination of experience and Weapon X "programming." Yes, its difficult to reconcile those two truths (impossible, some might say), but thats comic books for you. I probably could have come up with a much better example (Warmachine comes to mind as someone who has only grown in one area over the years). Still, my point remains; comic book characters are stereotypes and are frequently quite one-sided. I don't believe that there is an advantage in trying to force people to create "well rounded" characters in a medium that doesn't call for them.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 19, 2009 8:56:36 GMT -5
Wolverine arguably has something similar to the Rage modifier, only it should increase his Close Combat rather than his Strength. The times I've seen him get his ass handed to him, it was rarely when he had that "Okay, now I'm pissed off", my-name-is-inigo-montoya-mode kind of climactic moment. But all characters have their good moments and their bad. And when you've been in as much stuff as Wolverine has ("I was getting bored only being on three teams while having my own solo adventures. A guy's got to live a little.") you're bound to have a lot of bad moments mixed in there. It really depends on who's writing them. (Wolverine in particular has been the wesley for at least a decade, and at least some writers like to punish him for it.) ~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 9:11:38 GMT -5
I've always interpreted Wolverines frequent, savage beatings as an example of something I call "he's gotta take a beatin!"
I don't know if TV Tropes recognizes this trope, but its out there.
Basically this is where a character becomes so popular that they start to develop a backlash (I am leading the charge on Wolverine's backlash!), and in order to deflect the criticism that the character is just too damned good at everything, they start making the character get a beat-down every now and then.
Superman and Batman have certainly been victim to this, and I'm sure we could all think of other examples.
There are holes in the theory, of course... because seeing Wolverine get beaten up doesn't make me like Wolverine anymore than I did before he took the beating. It just makes me think "wow, even when he's not doing anything special, Wolverine gets the spotlight."
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Post by Manticore on Feb 19, 2009 9:14:44 GMT -5
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 9:22:26 GMT -5
LOL
Seriously... I just don't understand how ANYONE can like Wolverine anymore, after they've insisted on forcing him into everything.
"Oh, by the way... did you know that Captain America was really created by Weapon X?"
"What??"
"Yeah, it wasn't really Project: Rebirth. It was called Weapon Zero."
"Uh..."
"Wolverine is Weapon X. Thats Weapon 10. That means he's 10 times more badass than Captain America."
"Uh..."
I used to be the biggest booster I know for the Ultimates Universe... until I found out that Wolverine is the center of the Ultimates Universe and (somehow) the very first mutant...
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 19, 2009 9:47:03 GMT -5
He's everywhere and he won't stop being everywhere and everything to everyone. I anticipate that if this continues, in 2025, when you buy ANY comic book (even an Archie comic), a man dressed as Wolverine will kick in your door and force himself sexually upon you. It's inevitable.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 10:43:19 GMT -5
Great. I can't wait for him to show up here and start calling me Butterball.
<Edit> I don't know if anybody here watches Lost, but Wolverine has already made his way onto that show, except there he's tall and called "Sawyer"
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Post by prophet224 on Feb 19, 2009 12:42:58 GMT -5
Ahhhhh!! TV Tropes was mentioned and I've just pulled myself from it's dark pit of unending amusing linkage!
Whew. Ok, so I'm generally holding off on this one any further based on needing more play time. However, I was laying in bed last night thinking about this (Yes, YES! I DO know how terribly sad that sounds, ok? <G>) and I realized that, as has been mentioned, maybe it doesn't matter after all. So sure, three LOEs and you get to upgrade.
New thought: Does this therefore mean that three LOEs where you (with your flight of 6) hovered around a bit allows you to upgrade from subsonic (6) to supersonic (7) flight? Or do you perhaps have to have done something closer to your top end of the ability for it to get a LOE at all?
Quick RL (Yes WK I know this is a game!<G>) example: If I can bench (1 Rep Max) 200lbs right now, I won't be able to 1RM 215 later if I only do sets of 25 reps at 95lbs. I'll need to push it closer to sets of 3-6 and lift heavier weight.
And Wolvy- yeah, overused much? Geez... I can't take any more!
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Post by malice on Feb 19, 2009 12:50:40 GMT -5
Some actions refer to the D&R more often than others.
Flight is a good example because your speed goes up exponentially.
Phase Shift is completely free of the D&R as far as I can tell, as is Teleportation (Which includes its own chart).
If you really want actions to have an exponentially graduated cost, do the phase shifter a favor and let them keep the flat cost. Some powers really do gain a lot of oomph from just one level, but most don't, and a few barely gain any power at all. Combat actions don't gain much from increased levels, since they square off against each other and never deal in larger measurements than a few stones. Ability scores gain a lot from increases though, since they follow the D&R, or decide who goes first in a fight, or determine how tough someone is to kill and how long they last. Modifiers can improve a lot with a cost level as well.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 13:00:30 GMT -5
Sorry prophet... keeping track of who did what and *how much* they did it just violates my sense of KISS.
I really don't understand whats wrong with the 10 LOE to an upgrade system, and I don't believe in "fixing" what isn't broke.
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