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Post by Dionon on Mar 2, 2009 2:27:26 GMT -5
Wow... you know he's right? We were sitting here arguing over the cost of it, and stuff, and we had determined that it would be a Ranged Weapon... BUT then we went off and took away ranged weapons in lieu of Ranged Weapons as Effect Garnerers.
So what are we going to do?
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Post by takewithfood on Mar 2, 2009 8:55:12 GMT -5
I'm planning on trying Force Blast basically out of the book (stones of attack as usual, range 4) but with 2 CLs of free advantages. I don't know how it'll turn out, but at least it's simple. When in doubt, simple sounds good to me.
This is also to keep it in line with Ranged Combat, as I'm more in favour of bonuses for weapons than some other folk. If most serious guns don't give +1 damage or x2 damage (and instead just provide some range) then there's no need to beef up Force Blast at all, IMHO.
I'll have to tweak Charge Objects now, unfortunately.
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Mar 2, 2009 9:01:41 GMT -5
Hey, if the majority of people want weapons to have bonuses, then go for it.
When the rules-set is done, I'll re-work that portion for myself.
I'm sorry, but for me... I just refuse to play a supposed "super hero" game any longer that actively forces players to make the following choice; Use a weapon or be weaker than everyone else.
Thats just not kosher to me, and ANY kind of automatic bonus to weapons makes that a choice that players have to make.
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Post by malice on Mar 2, 2009 9:49:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but for me... I just refuse to play a supposed "super hero" game any longer that actively forces players to make the following choice; Use a weapon or be weaker than everyone else. Thats just not kosher to me, and ANY kind of automatic bonus to weapons makes that a choice that players have to make. THAT sentiment is why you don't see me in the Fantasy-oriented games on these boards and why I don't play many gun-toting heroes. If I want Fantasy I play D&D. If I want guns I play Shadowrun If I want to be uniquely powerful and epic, I play MURPG. Getting a Force Blast in D&D takes at least 8 levels and it's stupidly weak on top of only being able to use it a few times a day (Although Dragon breath weapons are nothing if not Force Blasts). Getting one in Shadowrun isn't that hard although to make it powerful you'll end up knocking yourself out from the strain. I just don't play MURPG to get my gun fix. Although in the Gears of War game Ranged Combat worked terrific. We couldn't make huge attacks (Because of power restrictions on the characters, not on the action) but the fact that most our stones were free meant we could have cool action-packed fire fights for more than 2 panels.
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Post by takewithfood on Mar 2, 2009 11:42:01 GMT -5
I really don't want to get into RC and weapons again, as its a dead-end conversation. I just want to say that I'm looking forward to the test game. I think people will be a little surprised at how it works in practice.
GMs can, will and have changed rules to fit settings. A gun-heavy game will make guns cooler. A silver-age caped hero game will make guns suck. Let's talk about Force Blasts, please.
~TWF
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Post by malice on Mar 2, 2009 11:55:54 GMT -5
Are you working the "2 free cost levels of advantages" as a discount or as "You get two +1 advantages or one +2 advantage free"?
Could I buy 3x damage for only +2 to cost level if it was my only advantage on a Force Blast? Could I buy Hunt/Seek (normally +3) for only +1 if it was my only advantage? If I bought 3x damage AND Hunt/Seek would it be a total of +3 to cost level?
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Post by takewithfood on Mar 2, 2009 12:07:13 GMT -5
Oh, good Q. For clarification:
- Yes, if you buy a Force Blast with x3 damage, it would only cost you +2 CL.
- If you buy Hunt/Seek (+3 CL) AND x3 damage (+4 CL) it would cost you +5CL. In other words, you only apply the -2 CL discount once.
It's basically just to encourage people to load their Force Blast with options rather than just lowering the cost. In the past a lot of people have suggested that Blasts should always be x2 damage or always Efficient.. I figure why not let people choose? Tailor it to your theme. (Sort of the way we do/did with Masteries).
~TWF
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Post by malice on Mar 2, 2009 12:09:37 GMT -5
Ack! I meant to type +5 and just didn't. I promise I'm not that bad at math. I never assumed I could apply the discount more than once.
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Post by takewithfood on Mar 2, 2009 12:16:15 GMT -5
Hee hee, it happens. At least we're on the same page, then. ^__^
My only concern is what to do with Efficient. I worry that it will be abused. I'm wondering if +2 CL as a cost would make any difference. Probably not much. I really want to make sure characters get tired in a serious fight. I want to make sure players are exceeding their energy recoveries - otherwise the system breaks down into meaningless math.
~TWF
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Post by malice on Mar 2, 2009 12:25:11 GMT -5
F*** Efficient, I promised I'd take "Unlimited Power". Efficient just ain't that handy by comparison.
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Post by Dionon on Mar 2, 2009 13:40:35 GMT -5
Wait... WK... I thought we had all agree to Weapons giving Advantages, and Unarmed Combatants being able to purchase Advantages to their attacks on the fly by paying CL in stones...
What happened to that?
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Post by malice on Mar 3, 2009 3:23:35 GMT -5
By the way, what is Charge Objects but a Force Blast with these options: - weapon modifier +5 CL - range 2 (-2 CL) - x2 damage (+2 CL) That would come to AN +3 CL. I would consider dropping that to AN +2 CL considering how crappy a weapon bonus is in this situation (most objects Gambit throws wouldn't be worth anything). I'm not sure what else to do with Charge Objects. ~TWF It's as much a Force Blast as Fireworks.
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Post by Neros on Mar 3, 2009 3:26:48 GMT -5
Well, not exactly.. Theres also the part about being able to destroy objects with ease.. Charge it.. *Boom*.. Object gone.. Also, I think the size of the object (as per the normal rules), should affect how much extra boom you can get out of it..
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Post by malice on Mar 3, 2009 3:29:37 GMT -5
Well, not exactly.. Theres also the part about being able to destroy objects with ease.. Charge it.. *Boom*.. Object gone.. Also, I think the size of the object (as per the normal rules), should affect how much extra boom you can get out of it.. ...that's the point I've been trying to figure out how to make but couldn't. While it's attractive to simplify things into the sum of their parts, most actions offer a unique bonus that couldn't be gained by the simple tacking on of advantages and disadvantages.
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Post by takewithfood on Mar 3, 2009 10:08:44 GMT -5
Does anyone other than Gambit really have Charge Objects?
~TWF
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