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Post by takewithfood on Feb 19, 2009 10:34:17 GMT -5
Do you also realize that Strength 6/7 costs the same as Strength 6? Why wouldn't you buy a second form, if you basically get +1 AN/MN for free on EVERYTHING?
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 19, 2009 11:07:53 GMT -5
Um.... you get an entire half a CAD for free the other way... and this way, it costs quite a bit.... Look at the cost of the Hulk and consider that the old hulk, the most expensive actions he had cost 1/2 what they cost now...
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 11:10:50 GMT -5
No they didn't. Banners did.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 19, 2009 11:11:39 GMT -5
You didn't answer my question.
If I want Strength 6, I pay 4 white. However, for the same 4 white I could make a Transform Self character who has Strength 6 in one form, and Strength 7 in the other form. You're essentially giving out +1 to ALL actions, abilities and modifiers for free.
Address that before you say anything else, please.
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 19, 2009 11:16:52 GMT -5
WK... Banner had the more expensive actions... which I said became half price.
To address the fact that -1 to actions (And if you look at the Hulk CAD only 2 actions got that.... It was the first 4 abilities that got that (not Health, Energy Pool or Energy Regen) It's the fact that the character can only use those actions in one form or another.... If you only have Toughness 1/2 the time... you deserve a discount.. If you can reinvent the wheel... but only 1/2 the time.. you deserve a discount...
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 11:19:33 GMT -5
But its not half the time. Its any time its relevant.
Banner gets hit, goes down in the first panel. In the second panel he gets up as Hulk. Period.
I've never seen Banner "die" that I can recall, or get knocked out so that he couldn't become Hulk except in a cartoon (which is officially totally irrelevant to me).
Theres just no way you could argue that Banner is going to spend any significant time without his Toughness in situations where it would actually matter.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 19, 2009 11:22:55 GMT -5
*facepalm* Dio, you do not understand. I could be sympathetic if you were trying to understand what I'm saying, but when you act as though your flawed logic is bulletproof, it's just... frustrating. Every time you say "Bam!" or something similar, I want to cry. lol
Here is a CAD that rips the logic of this rule apart:
Name: Cheesy Man
Normal Form / Super Cheesy Form Abilities Intelligence 4/5 = 2 white (same cost as Int 4) Strength 6/7 = 4 white (same cost as Strength 6) Agility 4/5 = 2 white (same cost as Agility 4) Speed 5/6 = 3 white (same cost as Speed 5)
Etc etc etc.
Do you see how making a character this way is basically giving them a FREE alternate form that has stats that are +1 better? If you don't, look at it again until it dawns on you. Because it is true. And it is silly.
I have thought of this same rule before, and I threw it out for this reason. It. Does. Not. Work.
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 19, 2009 11:23:29 GMT -5
*shrugs* Honestly, besides TWF's original idea (reworked a little maybe) in the Metamorphosis thread.. this is the best idea so far.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 19, 2009 11:24:40 GMT -5
My Metamorphosis-as-Transform-Self turned out to be a horrible idea. lol
~TWF
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Post by Dionon on Feb 19, 2009 11:25:51 GMT -5
Not if we reworked it a little.... I saw great possibilities for that, and honestly, it COULD work.
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 11:27:14 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I know this has been answered before... but whats wrong with simply having the weaker form be free except for abilities that are greater than those of the stronger form?
In Banner's case... he'd simply pay for the higher Intelligence plus his Medicine, Technology, & Inventing, which he gets good use out of, and there you go.
You pay for what you get. Sure some of it is only useful part of the time, but given that you're almost always in the most effective form for a given situation...
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 19, 2009 11:29:21 GMT -5
At this point, I'm tempted to just say "You want to only be able to use [insert action] in one form, and [insert action] in the other? Great, I don't care, pay for both." lol
~TWF
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Post by WildKnight on Feb 19, 2009 11:32:26 GMT -5
Thats what I'm suggesting.
Like I said... 9 times out of 10 (maybe 9.5), you'll be in the right form for the right situation, and you can get some "bang" out of uncontrollable transformations by taking Challenge stones, so its not like you're getting nothing out of the deal.
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Post by takewithfood on Feb 19, 2009 11:35:18 GMT -5
HA! You posted that as I was typing. ^__^ Great minds and TWF think alike.
I think you're right about just making it a Challenge. Stones can be handed back as the GM sees fit, perhaps in the 1 to 5 stone range.
~TWF
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Post by Neros on Feb 19, 2009 12:26:03 GMT -5
So you wouldent get any discount from having a weak form which can easily be killed and theres also the part about transforming taking a panel?
As i see it, theres a difference from constantly having Toughness 6 or only having it parttime..
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